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-   -   Need a little help on a mechanic - please (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/59572-need-little-help-mechanic-please.html)

Inthegame Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:28am
1. BU was off the left shoulder or so of the SS. He & she may have stepped in a couple of paces towards first.
2. I don't recall PU trailing BR
3. One crew was both male the other crew was female

I agree with "Irish" make the call and make possible correction later. With no call I see it could create alot of confusion if the BR just continues to 2nd and defense attempts 2nd play on BR while oringinal baserunner scores.

In any event - thanks for your input and I hope to call NCAA games someday.

Andy Mon Nov 01, 2010 06:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGKBLUE (Post 698804)
The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."
Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Nov 01, 2010 06:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy (Post 699192)
Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.
Well, Andy, it isn't just me, but ASA disagrees with you, too.

And what happens if the PU doesn't see it? Maybe he takes a shot with a bat or a catcher steps and blocks him out of the play? And giving priority to a play at 1B over being in position for a play at 3B? I don't think so.

It is presumptive and IMO gives an umpire an out for developing a bad habit. I believe this mechanic reverses the priority an umpire should employ. Instead of looking for possibly unseen negatives on a play, the umpire should worry about the s/he DOES see/hear and make the call based on the information available.

CecilOne Tue Nov 02, 2010 07:32am
So, regardless of which we believe is better, in NCAA ask first, elsewhere call first. :rolleyes:

Skahtboi Tue Nov 02, 2010 08:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 699255)
So, regardless of which we believe is better, in NCAA ask first, elsewhere call first. :rolleyes:

In NCAA it is an option to ask first.

HugoTafurst Tue Nov 02, 2010 09:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 699199)
Well, Andy, it isn't just me, but ASA disagrees with you, too.

And what happens if the PU doesn't see it? Maybe he takes a shot with a bat or a catcher steps and blocks him out of the play? And giving priority to a play at 1B over being in position for a play at 3B? I don't think so.

It is presumptive and IMO gives an umpire an out for developing a bad habit. I believe this mechanic reverses the priority an umpire should employ. Instead of looking for possibly unseen negatives on a play, the umpire should worry about the s/he DOES see/hear and make the call based on the information available.
Most of my recent hardcore training is SUIP (NCAA) and I have what Andy stated.

It makes it all the more important to know where you are calling and to have a thourough pre-game.

I am used to that mechanic and like it, but would be very careful using it unless pre-gamed and understood by my partner...

topper Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 699265)
In NCAA is an option to ask first.
Exactly. One that I choose not to use. Even when everything goes as designed it has an awkward feel to it and, IMO, doesn't do much for instilling confidence in the crew.

CecilOne Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 699265)
In NCAA is an option to ask first.
OK, just that Andy's manual quote does not read very optional.

Skahtboi Tue Nov 02, 2010 01:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 699299)
OK, just that Andy's manual quote does not read very optional.
As I don't have my manual with me at work, today, I cannot refute this. And I certainly cannot quote the manual, little less page 109 word for word to support what I previously said. However, it has been taught as a viable option. (Something to not slow down the flow of the game....etc.)

MD Longhorn Wed Nov 03, 2010 04:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp (Post 698897)
Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?
1) BU already has a very good angle on this play at C, and likely is moving only to gain distance, and even then, only if he can stay out of the play (grounder to the left side could be F6). 2) Only if it was his last game ever or he wanted it to be. HUGE no-no. 3) ??


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