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You and me both. I was going to stay quiet and just not encourage him. :) |
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Since the PU went with A, then: Quote:
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But even so - say a regular player misses a base and the pitcher turns to you and says, "That's just wrong" - you calling an out? I think you need something a little more specific. OTOH - I'm not faulting an umpire who takes that as an appeal in this case on the field. |
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In ASA, the coach cannot make that dead ball appeal, it has to be an infielder (including pitcher and catcher). But, Fed would allow it (don't have my NCAA book handy, but believe coach can there, too). That said, most umpires would simply ask the nearest the player "What did coach ask you to ask me??" But, to the form of the question, I think it is clear that, coach or player, they are trying to make some form of appeal, but haven't asked one that you can address; YET. My response would be something more along the lines of "What you are saying isn't something I can rule on. That isn't a rule violation. Do you have a specific appeal you are trying to make??" And, no, I don't consider that coaching, as long as there is enough information to understand they are actually trying to make an appeal, it is perfectly acceptable to head in that direction, as long as you don't actually direct them to something they weren't already trying to do, or hand them the information they need to have. |
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Do you really intend to win this argument on the basis that a runner from Delaware might have actually been taught to count backwards beginning from 3? :D |
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If I see this violation, I am invoking 8.3.D. Legal order for the bases means legal order; it should not have to be spelled out for us or anyone else to understand. It is an elementary theory of order 1, 2 3…….etc.
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What would you do in a JO game if a pitcher, catcher or infielder entered the field of play on defense without a glove? |
I haven't started calling High School or College games at this point and have not looked over the rule sets for them. It appears that the call is supported by ASA rule and the right thing to do. I understand that the situation above was a little different as the coach was granted time and did not allow the play to finish before calling time, although Rule 10 allows for the umpire to make it right and I believe they should do so. I know we are getting off the original post here, but I am going to take a stab at your question. If I had a defensive player enter the field w/o a glove, I would be concerned for her safety and advise the coach of my concerns. If the player refused to use a glove, I would not allow the player to remain on the field.
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OK, in agreement that ASA 8.3 does not tell us specifically what is the legal order of touching bases as does NCAA and FED, and would have been wrong in applying it to mb's sitch in the OP.
That being the case, what instance would we call a runner out (under 8.3.D) for running the bases in reverse order to either....(1) confuse the defense or (2) make a travesty of the game? |
George Hancock and every softball player after him knew or knows that softball bases are ran in order of 1ST, 2ND, 3RD and then home plate. In the referenced post, running to third could be judged a travesty or ridiculous representation of what a runner is supposed to do after becoming a batter runner. I would apply it to the situation under the referenced rule.
IRISH, as Umpires, do we not have a liability to insure the safety of the game? I would be willing to bet that any reasonable umpire would not allow a infielder to participate in a fastpitch softball game without a glove. I would reference Rule 10.1 and state that if ASA intends for us to enforce the helmet chin strap rule, then they would support an umpire’s decision to not allow an infielder to play w/o a glove. |
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The first paragraph of my last post was for KJ.
ASA Rule 3, Sec 4 states: A glove/mitt may be worn by any player (within prescribed dimensions). It further states that the pitchers glove may be solid or multicolored as long as it is not the color of the ball. I would argue that the foreword slash between glove/mitt means one or the other. This rule allows for the option of wearing a glove or mitt, not that the glove is optional. Wilkipedia.org states that the most common use of the slash is to replace the hyphen or en dash to make clear a strong joint between words or phrases, such as "the Hemingway/Faulkner generation". It is used to represent the concept "or", especially in instruction books. This is my final resting case on the glove issue. |
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And, yes, it is a no brainer, but so is wearing a mask when catching. Yet that is not only required by rule, but the specific type of mask is defined. Quote:
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