ASA Senior Ball - Second Plate
 

Runners on 2B & 3B, no outs.

Line drive to the outfield drops for a hit. R2 is was moving on contact while R1 hesitated to to make sure ball wasn't caught. F8 is up quickly with the ball and throwing home.

R2 catches R1 just as they both cross the commitment line, but the throw beats both as the catcher receives the ball while touching the original plate prior to either runner touching the second plate.

Is your call:

1) Both are out
2) R1 ruled out, R2 scores
3) No outs since neither runner was tagged
4) Huh? What do you mean there are two home plates?

Sure looks like (1), both are out.

But Irish wouldn't have posted it if it were that simple. What did I miss?

The key is that both passed the commitment line.

Personally, my answer is 4.:confused: :)

Okay, I'll take a long-shot at this.

Since both runners passed the commitment line, and since the second home plate replaces the "tagging" of the runner, I vote for #1, double play. My thinking (huh?) is that this would be the equivalent to two runners coming in to home plate and the catcher tags both runners prior to either of them touching home plate.

Now Mike, I'm hoping that since you only gave us 4 choices, the answer is one of them and not a 5th choice that you left out. :) Or is the 5th choice R2 not only "caught up" with R1, but also passed him? :)


Serg

There would still be two outs though--R2 out for passing, R1 out on the commitment play.

Around my neck of the woods, I only see two home plates in a variant of slo-pitch where the catcher must play the original plate and the runner(s) must go for the second plate. In effect, the second plate acts as the scoring line (safe line) in coed slo-pitch.

I can't really see any other alternative under the rules than calling both runners out on this play.

I agree. As the rule is written, both should be out.

It just seems strange that on a play designed to be handled as a "force out" you can get more than one player out on a single act of touching one base.

However, by rule, the defense has no alternative since they cannot tag the runner. What would be expected, that the catcher touch the plate for one out, step off and then touch the plate a second time for the second runner?

This is a perfect example of what happens when you tinker with the rules of the game.

It is not a force out if there were runners only on 2nd and 3rd as in the OP.

Cecil, The "force out" is the fact that once both runners passed the committment line, then, by rule, they are "forced" to continue to the second home plate. If they go back to 3rd base, then, again, by rule, are out.

Serg

But it is a timing play, no?
________
buttsex Cams

What's your point?

Mike - I don't see this as being odd at all. Without the tinkered rule, both runners would be heading for home and F2 would be able to tag both.

OK that's true. As I said earlier, passing the line is the key.

Or, they could stop and get in a run-down and one or more could be safe, score, etc.

Was just being pedantic, it's not a force out.
________
Vaporizer volcano

That was the one I was going with! :eek:

STOP!!!

I did not say it was a force out, but "handled" as a force out.

Does anyone actually READ what is typed?

Mike, are you asking this question because I'm in Burlington this weekend? :D

Answer is 1.

No, it wasn't because you are in Burlington.

It is because an umpire ruled #2 on such a play.

When I get these questions (that are not part of any protest), I try to put myself in the umpire's position and work back from the call to see what s/he may have been thinking to come to the conclusion s/he did.

My fault, reading fragments instead of all. Reminded by Serg.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioJ
Cecil, The "force out" is the fact that once both runners passed the committment line, then, by rule, they are "forced" to continue to the second home plate. If they go back to 3rd base, then, again, by rule, are out.

Serg

OK that's true. As I said earlier, passing the line is the key. "

Just didn't want it to get out of control. Too often threads take a turn away from the point and I just wanted to avoid that.

Thanks

Really! On this forum?? :p ;) :D

When I get home, I plan on having some beer a coworker of mine home-brewed...

Really? What style?????

To be honest, I forget. I think it's a bock-style brew...

It's called ForumFantasy. :p :)

I need to get back into brewing. I have found that it is really hard to find a really good oatmeal stout these days.

So, back to the OP, what became of that situation?

Whether it's two home plates or just one plate and a scoring/safe line, I can think of no rules code where the fielder would have to step on home plate twice to get two outs on this.

Had a dinner guest bring a 6 of Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout.

Pretty good

Yeah it's been months since we had a good beer thread...

A fine beer. A good example of the style. Were you fortunate enough to have a Young's Oatmeal Stout while they were still brewing it? It was, for my dollar, the best example of the style ever!

From NUS staff:

The ruling should be that both the runners are out.

The catcher should thoretically touch his home plate twice to retire those runners, however, if he kept his foot in contact with the plate for a reasonable amount of time, both runners should be declared out.

The 2nd home plate was designed to protect the runners and the catcher from any collision situations. Rule 8, Section 9D covers the use of the 2nd Home plate. Letter #6 states that once he passes the committment line he cannot return. If he goes back he is out, and if the catcher's tag of his home plate beats the runner reaching the 2nd home plate, that runner is also out. The description in your play fits in with the above.

So, if he just did a quick stab of home plate or runs across it only the first runner is out?

I had troubles with that as well. I mean, as a parallel, if you had two runners side-by-side, you could conceivably tag both of them with your glove at the same time and have both of them out. You shouldn't need to do two separate steps to get the outs at HP.

To me, the rule is clear: if both runners have passed the commitment line, they're both called out when the defensive player has the ball and touches home plate. There should be no other required action by the defense.

Are you going to call it that way? :rolleyes:

I'm not. I agree that the play should apply to all runners. Don't like the use of the second plate, but if that is what these folks want, they need to live with the rule.