Can you abandon your at bat?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Had a weird one at the 14U ASA National in Moline, IL last week. 1-1 count, R1 @ 2B. B2 bunts down the 3B line and it trickles foul. We reset with a 1-2 count. Eventually on a 3-2, B2 grounds out. R1 keeps rounding 3B and starts jogging toward her dugout (on the 1B line) obviously thinking the inning is over. She barely gets back safely. The inning ends when the next batter makes an out.

In getting together with my U1, he tells me we allowed 4 outs that inning. During the discussion, we figure out that B2 mistakenly thought she bunted foul with 2 strikes and went to the dugout believing she was the 2nd out. I never saw her go to the dugout because I had just followed a ball down toward the 3B bag.

Defensive team never says a word. However, the next inning while heading to the coach's box, the offensive coach asks what would have happened if he brought it to our attention that B3 replaced B2 in the batter's box prior to B2 completing her turn at bat. He was aware it was going on at the time but was fearful the ruling would be abandonment.

So ... what say you all? What would be the proper ruling if:
a) the OC appeals while B3 is at bat
b) the DC appeals while B3 is at bat
c) the DC appeals after B3 bats but before a pitch is thrown to B4

Can you get an out for abandonment on a batter, or only a runner and/or batter-runner? Is this merely a BOO?

Batters go to dugout to change bats, helmets, etc. and it seems to me it is only abandonment if on a base or advancing.

Looks like a BOO as long as B2 was not out.

Asides:
Why did U1 allow this or did he/she find out after the fact, without watching B2 running or not running to 1st?

Wasn't R1 thinking 3 outs a clue that something was awry? She apparently knew B3 was B3, and B2 was gone.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Batters go to dugout to change bats, helmets, etc. and it seems to me it is only abandonment if on a base or advancing.

Looks like a BOO as long as B2 was not out.

Asides:
Why did U1 allow this or did he/she find out after the fact, without watching B2 running or not running to 1st?

Wasn't R1 thinking 3 outs a clue that something was awry? She apparently knew B3 was B3, and B2 was gone.

By the time R1 thinks there are 3 outs, it's too late for PU to fix the BOO - by then it would have to be appealed by the defense.

To answer the OP. A) fix it. B) fix it. C) BOO - you have outs.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By the time R1 thinks there are 3 outs, it's too late for PU to fix the BOO - by then it would have to be appealed by the defense.

To answer the OP. A) fix it. B) fix it. C) BOO - you have outs.

If B3 went to the dug out with a 3-2 count, thinking she was out, and B4 comes up to bat, if the defense appeals before a pitch to B4, then you just replace B4 with B3. Anytime BOO is detected before the improper batter has completed their turn at bat, you just replace with the proper batter.

[Andy]

Just curious....what did the UIC have to say about it?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rwest

If B3 went to the dug out with a 3-2 count, thinking she was out, and B4 comes up to bat, if the defense appeals before a pitch to B4, then you just replace B4 with B3. Anytime BOO is detected before the improper batter has completed their turn at bat, you just replace with the proper batter.

Um .... what? Are you agreeing or disagreeing, and with which - A, B, or C? (None of the three has B3 doing to the dugout in the middle of her atbat - which is why you've lost me).

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Um .... what? Are you agreeing or disagreeing, and with which - A, B, or C? (None of the three has B3 doing to the dugout in the middle of her atbat - which is why you've lost me).

Sorry! I thought B3 was the batter who had returned to the dug out thinking she was out.

The point I was trying to make was that if a batter "abandons" her at bat and another batter takes her place, then it's not an out for BOO. It's treated like any other BOO scenario where the improper batter has not completed their turn at bat. Replace her with the proper batter and she assumes the count.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by rwest

If B3 went to the dug out with a 3-2 count, thinking she was out, and B4 comes up to bat, if the defense appeals before a pitch to B4, then you just replace B4 with B3. Anytime BOO is detected before the improper batter has completed their turn at bat, you just replace with the proper batter.

I believe we're getting a bit confused, here. Lemme try to clear it up.

B2 went to the dugout after bunting foul on a 1-1 pitch. B3 "started" her at-bat (or began to finish B2's at-bat ... however you want to look at it) with a 1-2 count.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by rwest

If B3 went to the dug out with a 3-2 count, thinking she was out, and B4 comes up to bat, if the defense appeals before a pitch to B4, then you just replace B4 with B3. Anytime BOO is detected before the improper batter has completed their turn at bat, you just replace with the proper batter.

Looks like you have the batter sequence off by one. Maybe same logic, but harder to follow. Please recheck the OP.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By the time R1 thinks there are 3 outs, it's too late for PU to fix the BOO - by then it would have to be appealed by the defense.

Yes and correct the batter if D appeals.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Why did U1 allow this or did he/she find out after the fact, without watching B2 running or not running to 1st?

U1 assumed he must have had the count wrong and she bunted foul for the 3rd strike and that we had two outs at that point. Afterward, he had given me a "two out time play" signal at which time I returned an emphatic "1 out" signal. U1 was the only one who was aware that B2 went to the dugout. U3 was unaware the batter in the box wasn't the same one who had just batted since he had a runner coming to 3B during the foul bunt attempt. When U1 and I got together and talked about it after the half-inning, I told him I hadn't seen the batter head into the dugout. It wasn't until the OC came out an inning later while heading down to coach 3B that I realized what had occurred. He asked me "What if ....?" and I asked him exactly what had happened. When he told me, I was pretty much shocked.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Wasn't R1 thinking 3 outs a clue that something was awry? She apparently knew B3 was B3, and B2 was gone.

The offense knew things had gone awry, they were worried they would be hurt more by the remedy/ruling than leaving well-enough alone.

This one was talked about in the umpire tent for quite a while.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

U1 assumed he must have had the count wrong and she bunted foul for the 3rd strike and that we had two outs at that point. Afterward, he had given me a "two out time play" signal at which time I returned an emphatic "1 out" signal. U1 was the only one who was aware that B2 went to the dugout.

Do you (and all) think a talk was appropriate at this point? Is it acceptable for U1 to initiate it, or is that outside protocol?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Not exactly a tangent, but answering the topic question in a manner that doesn't address the play (which I believe has been answered correctly).

The only manner of "abandonment" that can be applied to a batter (so far as I am aware) is failing to take a position in the batter's box when directed by the umpire. With two strikes, the penalty of a called strike after 10 seconds would result in the out.

But, since some one stepped in, and you didn't ask for the correct batter to step in, it doesn't really apply here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

U1 assumed he must have had the count wrong and she bunted foul for the 3rd strike and that we had two outs at that point. Afterward, he had given me a "two out time play" signal at which time I returned an emphatic "1 out" signal.

Biting tongue, biting tongue, biting tongue...............

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Biting tongue, biting tongue, biting tongue...............

I figured that was coming!

[KJUmp]

I'll leave the correct ruling to everyone else.

My question to you is, in looking back on this, where do you feel you guys messed up as a crew? As the PU and the guy with the responsibility to manage the crew AND the game, where did you come up short?
As Wade said, "you guys got lucky"....verrry lucky. You guys were one pitch or bounce of the ball away from a major cluster f**k in an ASA National Tournament.
Not looking to slam you here, but you do need to learn from this. To me, long term relative to your umpiring career, it's more important than the correct ruling to the sitch in your OP.
And yes, as others, I'm curious as to the UIC's take on all this.