Fed Illegal Pitch Option
 

I was reviewing Fed rules this week and came across the section discussing the offensive team's option after an illegal pitch. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to be saying that the option is only given if the batter hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a baserunner. In all other circumstances, the penalty is enforced.

So if there is a runner on 1B and an IP is delivered while the runner is stealing, and the throw from F2 goes into the OF, and the runner goes to 3B, we enforce the penalty and put her back on 2B?

In the other rule sets I've looked at, the offensive team always gets the option, i.e., play or penalty.

Am I missing something in the Fed book?

I think someone is on the wrong board.

We had this discussion a while back and though I don't have my rulebook in front of me, I'm pretty sure that there's a statement that makes the ball dead as soon as the catcher catches it so there can't be any subsequent action to sort out. Maybe search the archives.
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Web Shows

Rule 6.2 Art. 2 ,penalty,exception.
This rule clearly defines defines the only time the offense has option of play or penalty is if the batter hits it fair or foul or becomes a baserunner. Any other illegal pitch you enforce penalty, no option.
In your scenario you don't have a batted ball or batter runner becoming baserunner, unless illegal pitch was ball 4, now batter runner becomes base runner. If ball 4 b/r awarded 1st on balls, offensive coach now has option, play or penalty. If not ball 4 you now do not have a batted ball or b/r becoming base runner. No option, penalty enforced.
An illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball. if you have none of the requirements above to allow options, the ball is then dead immediatly and penalty enforced,no option. It's the same rule as MLB OBR.

Not So
 

The rule says the play is dead at the end of playing action. So if the catcher throws the ball to 2nd, playing action has not ended. It doesn't end on the catch.

Rule 6-1 Penalty (Arts. 2, 3, 4)

Back at it...
 

This very rule came up for at our HS Association meeting tonight.

It turned out that no one argued that there was no coach option.
The new twist (to me) was that many argued (reasonably) that since the ball became dead "at the end of playing action", a runner going from 1st to 3rd on a passed ball, should be allowed to stay there - and a ball awarded to the batter!
Conversely, if she was thrown out at 3rd, the out would stand and a ball would be awarded to the batter.

The thinking here is that similar to obstruction, she is awarded 2nd but whatever happens after that, happens..... And at the end of that playing action the ball is dead.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm :eek:Sounds similar to another sport - just can't remember the name:eek:

After much discussion, our rules interpreter was tasked with getting the FHSAA interpretation. Hopefully it will match NFHS.;)

Sometimes an illegal pitch is delivered to the batter. If the batter hits the ball (fair or foul), the play continues until the "end of playing action". Now the coach of the team at bat has the option of the resulting play or the penalty. The ball must be hit.

If the batter swings and misses the ball, the play is dead, all runners return, and the award is made.

If there is not any delivery of the ball to the batter, the play is dead and the award is made.

The runner stealing has no bearing on the play.

Tex - is this your interpretation or is it official in any way, either an NFHS State Rules interpreter or directly from NFHS? If so....is there documentation anywhere?

I count 4 inaccuracies in this post... anyone have more?

I've only got three. And that's with counting the ball must be hit and if they hit it as two separate ones. If you don't want to spoil the surprise can you PM me.
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Crazy_N_Wet live

True.

False, it continues regardless of whether the batter hits the ball, in some cases.

False.

False.

False, in one case.

True!

I gave him this one. Technically not really true, but also not blatantly false. Just unimportant.

My count didn't include "now the coach has the option..." Once the ball is dead after a hit, then yes the coach has the option.
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MegaSquirtBB

You're probably right, as my perception of what was false there was the preceding clause - when the ball is hit... I guess I double-dinged him for the same error! :)

Andy, the answer to your question is yes.

This segment (Illegal Pitch Enforcement) was included with 2 slides in the NFHS powerpoint presentation that was made at both the Texas State Meeting and the Arkansas State Meeting. This segment explained the 6-1-(2, 3, & 4) penalty with the 6-2-2 penalty and exception. These are on pages 47 - 50 of the 2011 rule book or pages 47 - 49 of the 2010 rule book.

An Illegal Pitch Enforcement article was also included in the 2010 NFHS Softball Preseason Guide official publication on page 4 by Referee Enterprises.

I have not seen the PP presentation you refer to, or know if it came from NFHS or was put together by the Texas and/or Arkansas state interpreters.

As far as the book goes, the specific issue of a runner stealing on the pitch, which is then called illegal is not addressed, hence the question on the OP.

This phrase you quoted is not to be found in the rulebook, either 2010 or 2011 editions, and is not addressed in the case book. the book states the ball is dead at the end of "playing action", yet that term is not defined.

Personally, in the play presented, I would allow the option of play or penalty if F2s throw was errant and the baserunner safely advanced to third.

Read 6-2-2 penalty and exception. The play is dead unless ball is hit.

What if the ball is not hit but the batter becomes a runner?

Just wonderin...... I'm sitting in a waiting room and don't have a book with me but I don't remember reading "the play is dead unless the ball is hit"

I do remember reading something like:
"a ddb is signaled and AT THE END OF PLAYING ACTION" the choice is given (provided the ball is hit or batter becomes runner)" If ball is not hit AND batter does NOT become a runner_ it appears no choice is offered.

Yes. Read it. You're ignoring about a third of that rule. The play is NOT dead if the ball is not hit but the batter becomes a batter-runner (which is the case after any ball four or any uncaught strike three (unless... you know)).

To Andy - if batter did not become baserunner, you can't give that baserunner third base - to Tex's point, if this was not ball four or an uncaught 3rd (with 2 outs here since your runner's at 1st), the play IS dead as soon as it's not hit... so there's no steal of 2nd, no advance to third - ball was dead the whole time.

Back to the Original Question....... I think
 

Received the following in an Email copied to our association.
As I stated earlier, Our association was disgussing the topic and it was decided that our interpreter would query the FHSAA.
The following is the response...

"
XXXXX,

Sorry for the delay on this one...

For an illegal pitch, there can only be two
options for the offensive coach to choose from;

1. The penalty for an illegal pitch is a BALL on the batter and all base
runners receive ONE BASE.
2. The coach may choose to take the RESULT of the play.

You can not the two to come up with a better solution. In the example
quoted, the offensive coach would have the option of the penalty (a BALL on
the batter and the runner would receive only 2ND BASE). Or the coach could
take the result of the play (either a BALL or a STRIKE on the batter and the
runner would stay at 3RD BASE.

I hope this is helpful. If you need anything else, please let me know.
XXXXX
FHSAA

Not sure how the question to them was worded but if they are suggesting you can give the option of the play when the batter does not become a batter runner then if I understand correctly that interpretation is in error.
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Avandia lawsuites

Well, that's the whole point.
I think the interpretation is what they believe it should be.
It sure makes more sense to me.

Be that as it may, I'm in FL I have my answer.

PS: Here is the wording of the question:
"Dear XXXX,

If you have an illegal pitch, and the batter doesn't swing or in anyway become a batter runner, where do you put a girl that has gone from first to third on the illegal pitch. Do you leave her on third or move her back to second?

Thank you,


XXXX
Rule interpreter,
XXXX"

Supposed runner was put out at 3rd base. I have same answer. Penalty is enforced. Runner back to 2nd and ball on batter.

But then the offense wouldnot want the "play" option.

Oh NO - Not again
 

Funny thing -
Same discussion came up again this year -
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it - or something like that....


In the where there is no B/R and R1 (from 1st) advances beyond second and
a) is safe at 3rd
b) is thrown out at 3rd

there are still many who want to enforce the IP by awarding a ball to the batter AND (a) leaving the runner at 3rd or (b) calling the runner out at 3rd.

Illegal Pitch with Runner Advancing more than one base
 

Has anyone received the OFFICIAL interpretation from the NFHS?

In my opinion, there is no choice given since the ball was not hit and the batter did not become a baserunner. I would rule a ball on the batter and award R1 second base only (ie. put her back on 2nd if she was either safe or thrown at at 3rd).

Our state (Va) high school asst. director for softball stated that whatever happens past 2nd base would stand (safe/out at 3rd) but I don't see a rule or casebook play that supports that ruling.

Please provide the official NFHS interpretation.

If the batter takes the pitch and you've already signaled/verbalized "illegal", is there a mechanic to stop baserunners who may be in motion?

Do you immediately call "dead ball? Or do you wait for the "play" to continue? If we can avoid someone getting hurt via sliding or being hit with a thrown ball, that's a good thing.