New pitcher - do you tell her the sitch?
 

OK - I've never been one to go talk to the pitcher after a change and remind them that there's a runner on 2nd, 1 out, 2-0 count. I thought it was bush league. Truly, it seems juvenile to me to tell the pitcher where the runners are standing - can she not see this?

2 weeks ago, I didn't do this. Partner seemed peeved that he, as PU, HAD to do it because I didn't.

Last week, I started to do this and was waived off and told by partner later that was a huge faux pas, and not to do it. 2 games later, after a change, PU is obviously waiting for me to do it, even pointing at me, then the pitcher.

So ... does ASA have a standard here? And if not - how do you guys feel about it - is it expected? Is it bush? Do you not care?

The ONLY thing I do differently for a new pitcher is as PU, and even then, only on a new pitcher entering in the middle of an at bat --- after the warmups, I'm beside the catcher, get PU's attention, and tell her specifically what the count is, perhaps a little louder than I would have normally.

I did it 20 years ago when I was 17 and just starting out as a little league umpire and the smitty that showed me the ropes told me I should.

I stopped doing it approximately 19 1/2 years ago.

Used to do it because I saw others doing it, but I don't anymore. If someone can point out a written mechanic in any ruleset that this is required, I'll start doing it again.

The pitcher's team already has a coach. :)

If there's no scoreboard or if the scoreboard is wrong (often the case here), I might give the number of outs, but that's a big "maybe."

If there's an existing count, I'll repeat it, but that's not for the benefit of the pitcher. On any pitching change, there's been a significant pause in the game, so I'll give the count for that reason alone.

Anything other than that is tantamount to coaching. Why not also tell her where her fielders are playing? It's the same kind of info, right?

No, not to the pitcher. However, like after every other break in action, I will provide the outs and count (if there is any) from my position behind the plate.

Agree with last two.

I will...
 

On the Plate I never verbally indicate the # of outs. And I certainly don't do the rotate side to side, make sure everyone along the first base line or third base line can see me indicate the outs. Talk about bush league. As a base umpire I do not turn and tell the outfileders how many outs there are on a normal basis. If the fielders ask I tell them, this includes the catcher. If I think it has been a confusing inning, a long inning or maybe a rookie partner I will somtimes indicate how many outs while "signing" my partner that we have an infield fly situation possible (and that has gotten me in trouble with a UIC before). As far as count, I only indicate the outs in a physical manner towards the pitcher or fielders from behind the plate. Verbally I state the count loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear me. As far as the changing of pitchers. I think the situation dictates my actions. New pitcher from bench I might more often say something if the oppurtunity presents itself. Special trip to mound. No. For a pitcher coming from another defensive position. Even less consideration for making an attemopt to update the situation. New pitcher within a current count. Yes I will make a more direct effort to repeat the count and make sure she is looking at the plate when I do.

The only 2 thiongs I have ever been taught about giving the count is (1) always give the count when there has been a change of position by runners on base. (2) Only give the count once the pitcher has turned and is facing the batter/catcher/plate.

No I don't go to the pitcher and give a game sit summary. I have had many partners who do and one or two who have given me grief for not doing it. But that is not a prescribed mechanic and I expect the players and coaches to have their heads in the games. Besides, a very good reason for not doing it is that many coaches will change the pitcher near the end of a timed game to stall. Going to the pitcher to give a game summary helps the coach stall and I don't think either umpire should be assisting either coach. Give pitch count and outs and play ball.

Hit Ball Hit Batter in the Box
 

Yep this is old school. Worked with a partner this year that came back from 5 years off, and he taught me this way, but I stopped doing it after working higher level ball.

Here is one for you all. What do you do when a batter is hit by a batted ball in the box. Personally I state "foul ball" and if it was not obvious I will point to the batter in the box and say "Hit her in the box". 99.9% of the coaches and players know what I mean.

However, last year I was told by a rookie blue from a different district that I was doing it wrong. That I must call "Dead Ball"-Point and say, "Hit her in the box"-Then follow up with "Foul Ball". To me this seems redundant.

I just holler a quick "Foul ball!" If I'm asked for a reason, I just tell them the ball hit her foot/leg/whatever.

Most of the time, when you're killing it this quickly, they already know why.

Exactly!

When PU, I call Foul Ball.

When BU, I call Dead Ball... and let the PU decide whether it hit the batter in or out of the batter's box.

Of course I think "the last district" always has a better way of doing it, just like "the umpire last night" always allow the teams to do it. (Whatever it might have been.)

Old umpire story:

PU: Foul! Hit her in the box!
Batter: No, Blue, it hit me in the foot.

Don't know if it's true or not, but it kept me from ever saying "in the box." :-)

To the original post:

It is an absolute no-no in NCAA, and highly discouraged in ASA to advise a new pitcher anything beyond what is reasonably required (outs if the board is wrong, count if any) unless asked. In the simplest terms, all pitching changes are made by a defensive coach, right? Well, if that coach doesn't think the new pitcher needs additional information, why do you?

When a batter is hit by the batted ball, the mechanic strongly urged is to first kill the play with "Dead ball!!". That allows you an added second or two to replay in your head what you just saw, and confirm in your mind what you will rule. Then, you can declare the batter out, OR still add "Foul ball" in addition to the dead ball; perhaps redundant, but not contradictory, and it serves a purpose (slow down, think about it, get it right, all while not seeming to take too long).

I no longer say "Hit her in the box"; instead, I point to a spot and say "Right there". True story, it did happen to me. Working an ASA Women's A National, and said "Hit her in the box". The batter looks up at me, and says matter-of-factly "No, it hit my leg." After biting my tongue, and swallowing it twice, I worked on keeping a straight face, and answered "So it did." And vowed to never put myself in that position again. But, that's just me.

One of my general disagreements with NCAA mechanics tied in here.

NCAA SUIP says the base ump should wait and NOT call batter touching batted ball, until it is clear the plate umpire didn't see it and won't call it. Now that we have hesitated, the plate umpire has no clue where the batter was when hit (compared to the base umpire killing it immediately). Yet, the plate umpire that didn't see the contact must rule where it happened; and really isn't even supposed to consult with the base umpire unless a coach really insists.

Just have a difficult time wrapping myself around how that is a better mechanic, and an effort to get the call right.

I don't. For all the reasons already posted. The exception would be unless specifically directed to by the tournament UIC or director, or the rule code we're playing under.
If she came in with a count on the batter, I give it from behind the plate, just prior to indicating and verbalizing "Play" to make the ball live.
I do not give outs unless asked.
Like most of you who have replied, I have partners who do it when they have the plate. Drives me nuts. and the only thing I need my BU to be responsible for during a pitching change is counting the 5 warmup pitches if I'm occupied with a coach on substitution/lineup changes.
Besides, most of these teams, (esp. the TB teams), seem to have all these coaches who make it a career of watching every move the opposing team and the umpires make, surely one of them is more than capable of handling this particular detail.

Twice
 

I agree with the "dead ball" verbal and then "foul ball". It does give you that extra scecond of thought. I also agree 100% that the BU should NEVER say "foul ball" The BU should simply say "dead ball". That stops everything and allows the home plate umpire to make the call or possible come to the personal decision of asking for help.

Now to vent....TWICE this summer....I have had the same HP umpire on a daughters game. HP indicates "foul ball"...Only to have the BU...who was BOTH times behind the shortstop with runners on second....and different individuals..... declare the batter out for being hit outside of the batters box. Somebody tell me how an umpire can make this decision after several inning of play and the lines gone, and after the HP umpire has declared foul, and from a distance of at least 70 feet? Who the heck is teaching this mechanic???

One of my pet peeves is the umpire advising the new pitcher "there are two outs and you have a runner on first and third", or whatever. I would be curious to know: 1) Why exactly the umpire feels it necessary to interject himself here, when the pitcher has a coach to instruct her and, I presume, functioning eyeballs, and; 2) Where are they are getting the idea that this is the correct "mechanic"- if you can call something that's not in the umpire manual "a mechanic".

Had a couple of partners do this last weekend and I'm thinking, "This team has FOUR adult coaches in the dugout. Surely one of them is capable of telling his own pitcher how many outs there are".

I've had guys that make a big show of this, pointing at each runner as he reels of which base they're on. It's bad enough that he has to tell the pitcher which bases are occupied. Does he also have to point out which base is first, second or third?

Had one partner who REFUSED to get back behind the plate and continue the game until I informed the pitcher of the situation. He just stood there looking at me, and I just stood there looking at him. Finally, he motions to me, then the pitcher, and says, "Go tell her". So I took a couple of steps toward the pitcher and mumbled something like, "Are you ready? Okay, here we go" and he then got back behind the plate.

I've worked with a few that make a big production of announcing the number of outs after each one is recorded, too. Had one guy who raised both hands overhead, held up, say, two fingers on each hand and loudly bellowed, "Two outs!", then dropped both arms parallel to the ground, holding out two fingers and holding that position for several seconds.

And then there are those base umpires that make a big deal of flashing the count on every pitch, sometimes with hands high overhead and sometimes contorting their arms and hands into strange and uncomfortable looking positions while doing it.

Personally, I don't do any of these.

If she is standing stock still in the box, DEAD BALL.....subtle point to her, and a non sell 'foul'.

If she is moving out of the box, and it is close, but she is still in, sell 'DEAD BALL!', and sell 'FOUL!' , with a strong point to where she was when it hit her.

If she is out of the box, but its close, again a sell DEAD BALL and a BIG sell 'OUT!' with what I like to call a combination hard point/out signal, so everyone, especially the coaches, know exactly where you saw where she was when it hit her, and that she was definitely OUT.

This all works for me, because I am very good at not overselling the small stuff, so that when I DO have something close, it wakes everyone up to the idea I might actually have the call right.

Answering the OP: No!

Bret:
I'm nowhere near Ohio but I think I've worked with some of those same guys.

I think those guys have made Pennsylvania part of their tour, too.

Working a College game a few years back. When a defensive coach would come out for a conference, when he was walking back to the dugout I would let him know it was a charged conference. After the game, a senior umpire chewed me out for doing that. He said we are dealing with adult coaches and by me telling him it was a charged conference, that it was redundant, that he knew the obvious. he said the coach should know he gets one conference before he has to change pitchers. Just kind of shrugged my shoulders and went on.
I always thought we were supposed to let them know. Dave

I shall respectfully disagree. I don't point, or raise a finger to indicate "one", as that can be misconstrued as an aggressive action, but I make every effort to catch the coach's eye and indicate it is charged.

There are times when a conference is not a charged conference; when the other team initiates it and this coach breaks his up immediately, when the conversation was an injury or health concern, when you as an umpire have held up play (say, to walk off being dinged by a pitch or foul ball).

So, if every conference isn't a charged conference, how does the coach KNOW you charged THAT one? Does the coach "assume", or do you tell him? Sure, it is most often obvious; but you certainly minimize the need to eject a coach or player for multiple conferences if you communicate all the time, every time. And, I will ABSOLUTELY tell an opposing coache when an apparent conference is NOT being charged.

Never talk to the new pitcher, she has coaches

I do only call foul when hit in the batter's box. I've heard from bigs in both ASA and NCAA both ways, neither is the preferred mechanic. I like the direct foul call because it is a single call, and when it may be questionable, I think it looks a little stronger to not have the two calls, JMO.

I don't even acknowledge college coaches when they have conferences, it's one per inning, it gets recorded and that is it. However, in ASA I make a point to VERBALLY inform the coach by taking a position up the foul line on his/her side of the field so that it is quiet and between us only. I deem this required because of the number of visits they are allowed and when; so tracking them over multiple innings is far more likely to result in an issue.

Wow, are we drifting more than usual? One topic got taken over by a beer review, this one by a totally different call and mechanic. Back to the original post.

I do not tell the pitcher the game situation (I did, but now I don’t), why? Because of great advice, I received on this forum several years ago.

Dave,
AtlUmpsSteve's reply covers it all.
Just to add to it, quoting the NCAA SUIP manual:
"....advise the coach from your position behind the plate that the conference was charged, or, if you have had to break up the conference, when you are at the pitching circle. In a normal voice say: ' That's a conference.' Or 'That's charged.' The coach does not need to acknowledge you. (And as Steve pointed out) Do not use any signal such as holding up one finger. No one likes a finger waggled at them."

I agree - and follow that same path.

NO, you don't coach the players

I don't remember who told me to tell the pitcher the game situation on a pitching change, but I have done it historically. I suppose now would be a good time to quite telling them. I have worked with a good bit of umpires and most of them ask the base umpire to tell the pitcher the game situation at the end of her warm up pitches.

On the Dead Ball/Foul Ball situation, I call Dead Ball when there is contact between the batter and the ball. In the event that she is not in the box, the Dead Ball is followed up with a verbal indication of Batter’s out.

I used to review the situation w/ new pitchers but don't anymore. I figure that's the coaches' job.

If there was a pitching change that occurred in the middle of an at-bat, I'll give the count [as I would after any significant delay in the game] before I signal to play ball.