illegal pitch (confession: good for the soul?)
 

I'm not happy with what I did last night. I need to confess.

Our local crew was chosen to work one of the MD state semis last night. I was plate. My zone/focus was great and my partners were on top of all calls in the infield and outfield. We had no problems and I think we showed very well.

But. First pitch of the evening. Pitcher walks on to plate and immediately puts hands together. Stands looking at catcher for 2-4 seconds then delivers the pitch. I look, think and do not signal illegal. Second pitch, same as the first. I again look, think and do not signal illegal.

This goes against everything I've said I wanted to do differently this year. No more "she didn't gain an advantage" or "no one is complaining". My motto this year has been if it's illegal call it and let the chips fall where they may. But not last night. I said to myself during those first few pitches that if she's gotten this far doing this and no one else has called it then I'm not going to be the first.

For what it's worth (not much) she didn't gain an advantage and no one did complain. The other team hit her fairly hard and won 3-0. But the fact that I said to myself "not in this situation, this game's too big" bothers me. Many of the local vets that I admire and trust don't consider this particular infraction one that is worthy of enforcing in last nights situation. That doesn't make it any easier for me.

I've been replaying the game over in my mind and I keep saying that if I had it to do over again I would have called the very first pitch illegal and lived with the consequences. But I can't go back in time. Any comments?

Maybe I'm missing something here but exactly what is illegal about this?

In part Fed 6-1-1-a "prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position.....with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands seperated".

She wasn't taking signs with the hands separated, but she was pausing as if taking signs... only the hands were together, right?

FWIW, the rule is there to prevent quick pitching (which she was not doing due to the longer than normal pause with the hands together). Her pause with the hands together was well within legal limits, so her wind up was not by itself illegal, either.

In the final analysis, a pretty minor violation; don't beat yourself up so much.

And what did Al have to say about it?

Haven't spoken to Al or even know if it was observed by him. The pitcher was from his county so I assume that someone has seen this before.

you must have had the sherwood game as the other one made the headlines of the back page for an unheard infield fly followed by a tag out at the plate for the 3rd out.

ip was covered in our asa clinic this past sunday. stressed heavily and offered reasons why umps do not call it.

if pitcher from al's county and his association, it would depend on the umps. unfortunately, i can not see them calling it. i got to the playoffs and called a pitcher for leaping 3 or 4 times. they, the coaches, had no idea, what the pitcher was doing wrong. so i took that as it not having been called all year. never saw a playoff game since then. i am done with them.

I had Blake vs Northern.

The gist of my original post (other than the confessional side) was to ask if anyone else sometimes finds themself not enforcing illegal pitches because of the "importance" of the game or the "no one else does" argument. Even though I told myself that I was going to tow the line this year, when I came to the "big game" I rationalized myself out of it.

Actually, I think it's the opposite. I find myself less likely to call IP in an early-season league game than in a game as you describe. Rather, I go to the coach between innings, ask if we can talk to the pitcher together and explain what needs to be fixed. (This being true only at younger ages. By 14 they should know it already).

Think of it this way ... in the "big game" you could be calling what you see. It's MORE important that a championship level pitcher not be able to take advantage of whatever benefit she's receiving from pitching illegally, however small.

That said... I don't have IP in the sitch you describe... because it's not illegal. You said she stepped onto the plate and then immediately put her hands together... that means that when she got on the plate, her hands were apart, as required.

Dakota, you are correct. She was pausing, but this came after she immediately put her hands together when she stepped on the plate. I agree with the idea that she wasn't hurting the batter with her pitching approach/delivery. It's just that the rule says one thing, but I allowed another.

I agree with you. The way the OP is written, I interpreted it to mean that F1 put her hands together immediately after making contact with the pitcher's plate.

MTD, Sr.

As I read the replys, I see many of you don't consider what I derscribed as an illegal pitch. So... who does consider this illegal? Once again pitcher walks to plate with hands seperated but as both feet make contact she has put her hands together. Now comes pause. Now comes pitch. Illegal or not according to Fed? Other organizations?

She violated NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b, specifically "this position" is specified in 6-1-1-a, And, 6-1-1-c has the hands come together:

I say illegal. She has to take the sign or simulate taking the sign after coming onto the PP with hands separated. The OP says she wasn't doing this so, illegal. Dave

You are OOO! when she gets the ball she has so many seconds to pitch.
She must come to the rubber with hands separated.
She must take or simulate taking a signal
She must bring the hands together
she must......
....
....

By your definition and by rule she has complied with all specifications.

Taking or simulating can be an eye blink! Just because she does not pause as long as you think she should, does not make it wrong.

You are looking for things that do not exist.

Yup.

I also concur that this is an illegal pitch. The hands must remain apart long enough fulfill the requirement of NFHS Rule 6-1-1-b. If you don't stop the pitcher from immediately bringing together of the hands what are you going to do when she does this and goes immediately into a pitch?

The penalty for not complying with Rule 6-1-1-b is an illegal pitch, the penalty for quick pitching simply no pitch. See 6-2-4-b

ART. 4 . . . No pitch shall be declared when:
b. the pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken position or is off balance as a result of a previous pitch.

You may go the entire game without the pitcher taking advantage of not complying with 6-1-1-b or it might cause you more grief later.

That said - I enforce this pretty simply. Was there a discernible pause before bringing the hands together? In other words immediately isn't a pause.

No, it can't. That is a quick pitch.

You're correct; I used the term too loosely.

I had that pitcher from blake and yep I called IP on her.

And where does it direct the pitcher or umpire to wait a specific period?

This is obviously something we would have to see since one person's idea of immediate may not be the same as the next.

Is there anything that states that the separated hands must remain still and not move toward each other as the pitcher is "similating" taking her signals?

There is no set time specified, so umpire judgment comes into play. And nothing I wrote said that the hands have to be still, they (according to the rule) have to be apart during the time the pitcher is "taking or simulating taking" the sign.

I think that enforcement of this is critical because of the reason that I stated in my previous post, allowing it can lead to other issues.

My point, thank you.

Never said you did

So, watching the catcher, the pitcher steps onto the plate and then brings the hands together is okay as long as the pitcher doesn't walk through the pitch, right?

No argument, but isn't the question here what is being enforced?

Irish said...

You've actually hit the nail on the head as far as what really has me irritated with my enforcement/non enforcement. The specifics are somewhat vague as to what the interpretation should be. Is it OK by the book(any book) for a pitcher to walk onto the pitching plate and at that same moment bring the hands together so that when both feet hit the plate she is together or almost together? Or is it a violation? I 've had veteran umpires, UIC's and various heads of state tell me me their interpretation, and there is no consensus. Some say absolutely not, don't allow it. Others say this is a minor violation at best, don't stop the flow of the game. And each one of these people have positions of authority and many years of experience that would lend creedence to either side of the argument.

Has any official word come down in the past from any organization that said that the motion I have been describing is definitively legal of illegal? Or is it simply up to each of us to decide for ourselves and explain our own personal view to those that question it?

Little Jimmy,

You are right. She was illegal. I probably would have called it early. But the point I'd like to emphasize is that the umpires that called her regular season games could have done everyone a huge favor by enforcing the rules correctly during the season. She would have corrected her problem, and you wouldn't be beating yourself up.

I think that after all this beating about ... we can agree this was HTBT. What I envisioned on the initial post sounded like nothing - but to others it sounded like something and it all comes down to how we are interpreting your words... I suspect that had we all SEEN the same thing, we'd be more consistent in our opinions regarding whether it was IP or not.

But to your original point - you felt that this was "too big a game" to make such a call. I think it's important that you get that idea out of your head. And reverse it. If it's a big game, it's either equally important or if anything MORE important to call everything correctly, certainly not less. Your mindset going into a game needs to be the reverse of what it sounds like it was.

had it mixed up with blair's team

Besides, we forgive you. :)

Thank you, father.:)

Jimmy:
Taking mb's reply from a different angle....
You chose to pass on the IP for the reason you stated.
But what would you have done if the other team's HC started complaining that "she's illegal"? Do you now say to yourself..."He's right, it's an IP. I know it's an IP because I saw it myself before he ever complained. I better start calling it???"
See the corner you've boxed yourself into?

Is this something that could have been handled by saying something to her coach about it between innings; then calling the IP the next time you saw her not having her hands seperated? Perhaps. But as many have stated, it's a HTBT sitch.
The sitch aside, you've started a good thread here....many thought provoking replies, opinions, and points of view on something that we all have had to deal with at some point.

Any time an umpire doesn't call the IP it just sets up the next one for the grief they will take when they do. The best way to make them throw legal is to call the IP and then call it again until they fix it. That is an illegal pitch.