5-Man Infield and Appeals (ASA SP)

[NCASAUmp]

In SP, teams will occasionally use a 5-man infield. Usually, this 5th infielder covers the area directly behind 2B.

If a runner misses a base or leaves too early, would you honor an appeal from this infielder? Why or why not?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In SP, teams will occasionally use a 5-man infield. Usually, this 5th infielder covers the area directly behind 2B.

If a runner misses a base or leaves too early, would you honor an appeal from this infielder? Why or why not?

Of course, why not, that player IS an infielder.

[BretMan]

Rule 1 (Definitions) Infield: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes area normally covered by infielders.

Do infielders normally cover balls hit "directly behind second base". Yep!

If a high pop fly were hit in this same area (with less than two outs, etc.) would you call an infield fly?

Rule 1 (Definitions) Infielder: A fielder who defends the area of the field around first, second, third or shortstop areas.

Sounds like the "fifth man" fits the bill!

I'd call "directly behind second base" being "around second".

[Rich Ives]

Does an appeal in ASA SP have to come from an INfielder?

If so, why?

[BretMan]

Yes, a dead ball appeal must come from an infielder, either with or without possession of the ball (in all versions of ASA softball, not just slow pitch).

Why? Beats the heck out of me. It just...is.

Live ball appeals may be made by any fielder who must, of course, possess the ball.

[shagpal]

lemme throw you all a curveball....

if this 5th "fielder" is in the grass outside of the infield, in the outfield playing in behind the second base bag, aka "rover", and an fly is hit right at him w/ infield fly in effect, do you declare an infield fly?

remember, fielder is standing on the outfield right behind 2B, playing "in" as a rover. based upon where he stands? where he makes the play?

if no IF is declared by you or your partner, do you allow either team to request it be invoked per the new ASA rules of IF in effect even if no umpires call it?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Rule 1 (Definitions) Infield: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes area normally covered by infielders.

Do infielders normally cover balls hit "directly behind second base". Yep!

If a high pop fly were hit in this same area (with less than two outs, etc.) would you call an infield fly?

Rule 1 (Definitions) Infielder: A fielder who defends the area of the field around first, second, third or shortstop areas.

Sounds like the "fifth man" fits the bill!

I'd call "directly behind second base" being "around second".

Agree.

[shagpal]

LOL! didn't even read bretman's post. I was too late to the party.

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Agree.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Yes, a dead ball appeal must come from an infielder, either with or without possession of the ball (in all versions of ASA softball, not just slow pitch).

Why? Beats the heck out of me. It just...is.

Decorum. How many times do you have outfielders just screaming and hollering to appeal this, check that, etc.? Neither umpires or players need to be screaming, and possibly being misunderstood, things across a big field.

Used to be a joke in some schools that if you have an OF with the right appeal an no IF was smart enough to pick up on it, the umpire should continually put hand to ear and scream what until the OF came in so far that you could consider him/her an IF and take the appeal.

[NCASAUmp]

So to all who believe that the appeal should be honored, how does 4-1-C-3-a fit in?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Decorum. How many times do you have outfielders just screaming and hollering to appeal this, check that, etc.? Neither umpires or players need to be screaming, and possibly being misunderstood, things across a big field.

Used to be a joke in some schools that if you have an OF with the right appeal an no IF was smart enough to pick up on it, the umpire should continually put hand to ear and scream what until the OF came in so far that you could consider him/her an IF and take the appeal.

Or, even simpler, just ask the nearest infielder, "What'd s/he say?"

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by shagpal

if no IF is declared by you or your partner, do you allow either team to request it be invoked per the new ASA rules of IF in effect even if no umpires call it?

Whoa, back up, padner....what new ASA rule?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

So to all who believe that the appeal should be honored, how does 4-1-C-3-a fit in?

That does muddy the waters a little bit (but not enough to make me change my mind ).

My take would be that this rule lists the fielding positions normally used in a game and establishes a convention for identifying them (F1, F2, F3, etc.). It doesn't establish or restrict precisely where on the playing field any fielder might position himself. It doesn't specifically designate or define any of the positions as being "infielders" or "outfielders".

So, if I have to determine which players are "infielders" or "outfielders", I'm going by the definitions of those positions listed under Rule 1.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Decorum. How many times do you have outfielders just screaming and hollering to appeal this, check that, etc.? Neither umpires or players need to be screaming, and possibly being misunderstood, things across a big field.

That was kind of what I figured and was the only good reason I could imagine.

[shagpal]

oh wait, NHFS rule, I think. I think it's discussed here...

NFHS Forum: New Infield Fly Guidance

Originally Posted by BretMan

Whoa, back up, padner....what new ASA rule?