From Another Forum (NCAA Question)

[BretMan]

This was posted on another forum. Not being 100% certain about all NCAA mechanics, I thought I'd throw it out here...

"Last Wednesday I was at the OSU vs OU game, there was a runner on 1st and 3rd. The right side umpire was between 1st baseman and 2nd baseman on the grass, left side umpire was between SS and 3rd baseman on the grass. The batter checked her swing (right handed batter), the home plate umpire looks like he is going to appeal to the right side umpire but turns to the left side umpire.

Is this right? Why would the left side umpire be determining a check swing by a right handed batter?"

My questions:

1) Is this the standard three-man umpire positioning for runners on first and third?

2) Is there a "default" umpire the checked swing appeal should go to?

[MNBlue]

This isn't standard base mechanics for NCAA - at least one person starts on the line every pitch. With runners on 1B and 3B, U3 should be on the line, squared to the plate, 6-10" from 3B. It is permissible to start a step or two off the line in order to be able to see the plate after the pitch.

For checked swings this is the order of who should be gone to for help:
Both umpires on the line, go to the open side: U1 for a RH bater and U3 for a LH batter
One umpire inside the diamond, go to the umpire on the line.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

This isn't standard base mechanics for NCAA - at least one person starts on the line every pitch. With runners on 1B and 3B, U3 should be on the line, squared to the plate, 6-10" from 3B. It is permissible to start a step or two off the line in order to be able to see the plate after the pitch.

For checked swings this is the order of who should be gone to for help:
Both umpires on the line, go to the open side: U1 for a RH bater and U3 for a LH batter
One umpire inside the diamond, go to the umpire on the line.

Saw a similar check in the Florida-'Bama series last week. RHB, checked, PU looked at and started to point to U1 in the B and in one, sweeping motion moved that finger over to U3. Probably only an anal umpire like myself noticed it, but looked strange....as it should. There is no way the umpire on 3B got a better look than the umpire in the B.

Don't understand the reason for the change in mechanics and I know I'm not alone.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Saw a similar check in the Florida-'Bama series last week. RHB, checked, PU looked at and started to point to U1 in the B and in one, sweeping motion moved that finger over to U3.

After going to the open side for over 2 decades, I do that all the time. Fortunately Billy P taught me to pull my mask and take a couple of steps - it gives me a second or two to realize I'm going to the wrong person and I can correct myself.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

After going to the open side for over 2 decades, I do that all the time. Fortunately Billy P taught me to pull my mask and take a couple of steps - it gives me a second or two to realize I'm going to the wrong person and I can correct myself.

Its a smart move. I've been teaching that for a few years, but not for that reason.

I teach it to get the umpire away from an errant practice swing or a pitcher who is in a groove and doesn't realize you are not ready. Granted, that shouldn't happen at the NCAA level, but I believe it is just something that would be in best interest of the umpire's safety to make it routine.

Another reason I teach a certain manner in which to do this is because I've seen umpires step between the batter and catcher when going to a partner for help. That can be extremely dangerous especially with the mask in your hand.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

S
Don't understand the reason for the change in mechanics and I know I'm not alone.

I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong ... I remember the NCAA reasoning that the BU inside the field should be focusing on pitching lane violations, so they took check swing responsibilities away from the umpire not on the line. Personally, I don't agree ... but nobody asked me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by argodad

I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong ... I remember the NCAA reasoning that the BU inside the field should be focusing on pitching lane violations, so they took check swing responsibilities away from the umpire not on the line. Personally, I don't agree ... but nobody asked me.

Yet the BU on the corner has an excellent view of the pitcher's feet in relationship to the PP, the ground and release. Go figure.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yet the BU on the corner has an excellent view of the pitcher's feet in relationship to the PP, the ground and release. Go figure.

You are missing the point, which is the focus on the pitching lane violations (the 24"-25.25" lane). The umpire standing in the middle has the best chance to make THAT call, and they want both THAT focus, and the steal possibly coming at you, while willingly trading off the better angle on the checked swing. Of course, the umpire on the line has better looks at the feet relative to the PP; I personally subscribe to the theory that leaps and crow hops can be seen from anywhere in the infield, and should be called when they happen, irrespective of BU position.

Back to the check swing, most times, either the batter clearly went, to the point where everyone really knows it; or else, if not at perfect position, we just shouldn't guess the swing, anyway. Those close ones probably should give the batter the benefit, anyway. I find we may be giving back a few "gray" ones there to the batters, but that isn't as bad for the game as the outrageous illegal pitching that has been largely ignored on the big stage.

We laughed at our "stars" never (or rarely) being called for what everyone can see; and we know the umpires knew they wouldn't be supported if they called it. The current atmosphere finally supported it; the pendulum swung too far, too fast, for some, and a correction has been implemented. But, at least the pendulum has swung to support those willing to call the more obvious IP's, and the pressure is more on those who won't, than those who will. I find that refreshing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You are missing the point, which is the focus on the pitching lane violations (the 24"-25.25" lane).

No, I didn't miss it. I understand, just don't think that should be THE priority.

Of course, the umpire on the line has better looks at the feet relative to the PP; I personally subscribe to the theory that leaps and crow hops can be seen from anywhere in the infield, and should be called when they happen, irrespective of BU position.

No argument there.

We laughed at our "stars" never (or rarely) being called for what everyone can see; and we know the umpires knew they wouldn't be supported if they called it. The current atmosphere finally supported it; the pendulum swung too far, too fast, for some, and a correction has been implemented. But, at least the pendulum has swung to support those willing to call the more obvious IP's, and the pressure is more on those who won't, than those who will. I find that refreshing.

As posted before, no one is claiming the called pitches are not illegal, but that the umpires actually have the nerve to call THEIR pitcher illegal. But we all know those coaches are very much aware of their pitcher's mechanics and tendencies, legal or not.

I just hope there is no pushback after the season that will negate the strides made in making the appropriate calls.