being consistent calling balls and strikes

[Tap]

I would appreciate any suggestions re: being more consistent calling balls and strikes. I call league SP only, and a combination of ASA and USSSA.

Also, how do you handle pitchers who whine about balls and stikes? Ignore, tell the catcher to speak with the pitcher, warn the pitcher, or some combination thereof? Ejection is obviously an option at some point. I know umpires need to let many criticisms roll off their backs and not be over-sensitive, and I don't want to eject someone prematurely, but at some point players need to realize that they need to shut up and play the game.

I guess I let people ask me where a ball is if they do it politely, and a spontaneous burst of whining/iritation is ok usually, but if a pitcher (or any other player) won't let it go, they're going to be ejected.

[Steve M]

Keep in mind that I am almost exclusively fast pitch & baseball, but this holds true for those few slow pitch games I do too. I find that the biggest key to a consistant strike zone is timing. Slow done. Watch the ball all the way into the catcher's glove, decide what it was, and announce the call.

As for whining, if I have to deal with the pitcher, the pitcher won't like the results. I'll talk with the catcher & have the catcher deal with the pitcher.

Steve M

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Tap
I would appreciate any suggestions re: being more consistent calling balls and strikes. I call league SP only, and a combination of ASA and USSSA.

Also, how do you handle pitchers who whine about balls and stikes? Ignore, tell the catcher to speak with the pitcher, warn the pitcher, or some combination thereof? Ejection is obviously an option at some point. I know umpires need to let many criticisms roll off their backs and not be over-sensitive, and I don't want to eject someone prematurely, but at some point players need to realize that they need to shut up and play the game.

I guess I let people ask me where a ball is if they do it politely, and a spontaneous burst of whining/iritation is ok usually, but if a pitcher (or any other player) won't let it go, they're going to be ejected.

Speaking ASA.

I call a true strike zone. The mechanics are the same as FP with the exception of the timing of moving to the set position. In SP, you need to make sure the pitch is legal, then move to your set position. I drop far enough so I can look up at the ball through the top of the strike zone. I could care less where the ball hits the ground, the only reason I am looking down is to make sure the ball doesn't hit the plate. I track the ball to (or pass) the catcher, then make my verbal while in the set, then come up to the hammer if necessary. If working the big boys were stealing is permitted, staying in a set position is secondary to getting out of the way of the ball.

As for pitchers, I don't talk to them. I will talk to the catcher the entire game and will direct him to handle the pitcher. I will even give him the words to say to get the message across to the pitcher. If confronted by the pitcher, I tell him to talk to his catcher. Just like the pregame. If the manager cannot provide me with someone who can simply pass a message along to his/her teammates, you're wasting my time.

As Steve said, if I have to handle the pitcher, they are not going to like the outcome.

[deeno27]

We all have slight variations in our strike zones (primarily in slo-pitch it seems). Remember, a good pitcher will adjust to your strike zone. The pressure is on the pitcher to adjust his/her performance. There is no pressure on you to make changes. You only need to remain consistent and do what you have done since day one--call balls and strikes consinstantly.

A pitcher who is whinning is obviously having difficulty adjusting to your strike zone (his/her problem) or complaining that you are not being consistent (possibly your problem). Either way, many times the pitcher is just trying to "get into your head" and make you call some of the more "questionable pitches" that could go either way in his/her favor. There are many mental aspects to the game, and this is one of them.

In these cases of pitchers asking about pitches, I deal with the catcher. Let the catcher "correct" the pitcher instead of you. The only time I will answer the pitcher is if he/she asks "was that pitch outside/deep/plate/ etc...." and they are correct, I will nod my head yes. If they ask why the pitch was not a strike, I tell the catcher.

Hope my opintion was useful.

Diana

[IRISHMAFIA]

The only answer to the "Why did you call that a ball?" question if, "Because it wasn't a strike."

[greymule]

Here's my two cents:

In my opinion, slow pitch players, more than those of fast pitch or baseball, try to "get into your head." This is especially true at the upper levels, where pitchers can put it wherever they want, and if they can pressure an ump into giving them a deep strike, they gain an enormous advantage. And frankly, high-level slow pitch players often can bench press twice their weight, which fact alone facilitates getting into someone's head. Further, since the penalty for illegal pitches is merely that a ball is called, they test the ump to see what they can get away with. I have seen quasi riots develop because an ump wasn't enforcing the 12-foot height limit, or was allowing the pitcher to get away with flat pitches (under 6 feet), or didn't make the pitcher pause before the delivery.

I remember once at the beginning of a tournament final, the pitcher threw a deep pitch for ball one. He asked me where it was and shook his head a little. Next pitch was not quite as far back, but still deep. Ball two. He questioned that pitch, too, as if he'd never seen an ump call pitches so tight. After the inning, I heard him tell his team, "Yeah, you can trust the guy." No problems the rest of the way—and I saw him pull the same act the next year on a different ump. On the other hand, if you try to enforce a tournament strike zone in a "Z" league, you'll have a miserable evening.

But otherwise your guidelines are the same. Get yourself a good zone--for the level you're doing--and then don't deviate from it. Like IrishMafia, I usually handle the pitchers through the catcher, too.

One major difference between IrishMafia and me is the mechanics. What he described is exactly what the book instructs and undoubtedly works for most officials. However, I tried standing straight up to check the pitch and then bending to see the zone, but pitches looked good to me that didn't look good to anyone else, so I gave it up. I stay straight up, and I would say most of the umps around here do so as well.

From my experience in well over a thousand games, which includes significant high-level competition, slow pitch softball is one game where what the book says is a strike and what everyone expects you to call are two very different things. There are certain "strikes" that both offense and defense expect will be called a ball, much like MLB's four-inch-above-the-belt "ball" of recent years.

One last note: if all you're hearing is a little grumbling from slow pitch players, you're doing a great job.

Well, I guess it was more like fifty cents.

[Tap]

Thanks everyone. I'll print all this out.

The ASA league that I call is a church league that's about E ball. The USSSA league that I call is called "B" but is more like C ball at best. In the USSSA league, the pitchers are generally ok control wise, but most cannot throw strikes at will. In the ASA league, the pitchers have much worse control and walks are more common.

I am accurate on inside corner/inside calls and on my determinations about whether a ball is over 12' (10' USSSA) or below 6' (or 3' from release in USSSA) and whether a pitch is excessive speed or has no arc. I sometimes (accidentally) let a pitcher get away with a pitch below the minimum height. I also am pretty consistent on outside corner/outside pitches.

My main concern is the borderline high pitch. I'm probably doing fine, but I get more gripes from pitchers on balls in that category than any other call. I know the strike zone extends to the shoulder (back one in ASA, highest one in USSSA) in the book, but I generally will call strikes only up to the middle of the chest. As a player, I think that's the way to do it, and I think the players expect it that way (and believe that's what the rule book says, like MLB).

Now, my problem is determining whether a pitch crossed into that zone or over it. I know it depends on the arc of the pitch, as a flatter pitch is more likely to have stayed low enough through the zone than a pitch with maximum arc, assuming they end up in the same place. I know where the ball lands is not supposed to be a determining factor, but sometimes I do rely on that, as well as the amount of arc. I'm going to try all your suggestions in this week's games.

I think what I really need is some videotaping and national clinics.

Thanks for the input.

Steve

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by greymule
This is especially true at the upper levels, where pitchers can put it wherever they want, and if they can pressure an ump into giving them a deep strike, they gain an enormous advantage...

I remember once at the beginning of a tournament final, the pitcher threw a deep pitch for ball one. He asked me where it was and shook his head a little. Next pitch was not quite as far back, but still deep. Ball two.

In all of my years of calling slow pitch, the "deep pitch" was a concept that I never got. Could you please clarify this for me? Is this just a terminology of some sort? To me, the pitch is judged a ball or a strike from where it passes through the strike zone, which in slow pitch is front knee to highest (usually back) shoulder at the plate. To me, "deep" rings of the conotation of where it lands behind the plate, which has absolutely nothing to do with it being a ball or strike. IS that in fact what it is referring to???

Now we see why I stick to fastpitch exclusively these days!!!!

Scott

[Tap]

It's just terminology that players like to use.

If someone asks me if a pitch was deep, I say "it was too high when it crossed the plate."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Skahtboi

In all of my years of calling slow pitch, the "deep pitch" was a concept that I never got. Could you please clarify this for me? Is this just a terminology of some sort? To me, the pitch is judged a ball or a strike from where it passes through the strike zone, which in slow pitch is front knee to highest (usually back) shoulder at the plate. To me, "deep" rings of the conotation of where it lands behind the plate, which has absolutely nothing to do with it being a ball or strike. IS that in fact what it is referring to???

Now we see why I stick to fastpitch exclusively these days!!!!

Scott

Speaking ASA.

"deep" is just something the players believe is relevent to the call. Of course, well all know it has nothing to do with the call and I refuse to use the word "deep" in describing any pitch. My response (to the catcher only) is "over the shoulder." BTW, in ASA, it is ALWAYS the back shoulder. Using the "highest" shoulder is ludicrous as it refers to a natural batting stance. That is strictly my opinion, but I can live with it

[greymule]

Sometimes I say "deep," sometimes the more accurate "over the zone." I now often make a sort of "come here" motion with my right hand. That gesture seems to be universally understood.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Sometimes I say "deep," sometimes the more accurate "over the zone." I now often make a sort of "come here" motion with my right hand. That gesture seems to be universally understood.

Speaking ASA.

Maybe so, but not appropriate. A pitch at which the batter does not offer to strike and/or does not come in contact with the bat is either a "ball" & "strike".

The pitch is not "deep", "inside", "outside", "back here", "on the plate", "high", "low", "short", "flat", etc. Other vocals prior to this could include "illegal", "no pitch", "time" or "dead ball".

Accommodating signals are strike/out, delayed dead ball, dead ball, count, infield fly, hold up play or play ball.

You are not taught to point at where the ball lands, point up in the air or over your shoulder. You do not make a "come hither" motion or a "walk like an Egyptian" movement of your flat hand, palm to the ground moving toward the pitcher. Shouldn't pound a fist on fist, palm on fist for a ball that hits the plate or closed fists for a full count and unless you are asking for help on a check swing, do not point toward first base.

I'm sure some folks think this is a bit on the anal side and that's fine. Someone asked for help and I didn't think it would involve mechanics, but once it did, I felt compelled cover the bases, so to speak.

[Skahtboi]

No Mike...I don't think that it is anal at all. That was sort of what I was referring to with my question about a "deep pitch." Heck...we're not traffic cops. If the pitcher can't tell why a pitch is called a ball, then that is their problem. I agree that we all need to stick simply to the appropriate calls and accompanying signals.

When I first started calling slow pitch, oh these many years ago, I often questioned some of these made up signals I saw some of my cohorts using. I was always told to "help the players out, in any way that I could," and that those signals help them. I would always counter with "I signed up to be an umpire, not a coach or a trainer."

Thanks for giving my argument validity.

Scott



[Edited by Skahtboi on Sep 18th, 2002 at 08:26 PM]

[greymule]

IrishMafia certainly knows all the signals. I guess they are universal, and I suspect he sees them often. I did see some umps from the Jersey shore indicating "flat" by extending the right hand with the fist straight out to the side (like the obstruction sign). We give the "Egyptian" sign. In fact, virtually every umpire in our two-county territory gives those signals, and the players at this point expect them. One guy, whom the players often cite as the area's best ball-and-strike man, routinely announces every close pitch: short, deep, inside, outside short, deep out, plate, etc.

In baseball, modified pitch, or fast pitch, I just say "ball" or "strike." But as for slow pitch, though I admit the signals are contrary to official mechanics, they have become part of the game (at least in New Jersey). Not that an ump who just said "ball" or "strike" would have a problem—the players would just be asking, "Where was it?" on the close pitches.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
One guy, whom the players often cite as the area's best ball-and-strike man, routinely announces every close pitch: short, deep, inside, outside short, deep out, plate, etc.

In baseball, modified pitch, or fast pitch, I just say "ball" or "strike." But as for slow pitch, though I admit the signals are contrary to official mechanics, they have become part of the game (at least in New Jersey). Not that an ump who just said "ball" or "strike" would have a problem—the players would just be asking, "Where was it?" on the close pitches.

I was in Richmond a few years back (10 or so) for the Memorial Day Round Robin. This female umpire could do nothing, but talk about this umpire working the same field. According to her, he was the best umpire in Northern Va and all the teams loved having him work their games. Had a couple local players tell us the same thing. I couldn't wait to see this guy. Well, eventually he had one of our games. Not only did he fail to wear the proper uniform, he sucked and spit sunflower seeds the entire game. All calls were vocal, but rarely strike, ball, safe or out. More like, "That's a good one", "chucked that one about 2 1/2 inches outside", "bang, you're done", "sit down", "juusst beat that one", etc. All calls were in a soft, monotone voice, never an inflection. Signals were non-existant. If you didn't hear the call, you had no idea what it was until the players moved.

I found that female umpire later and basically told her that he may have won the endearment of the players, but his umpiring would never be tolerated were I came from. Also suggested that if she ever intended to advance to the higher level, she should totally discount his style.

The players pay to play, but when I walk on the field, I am a representative of ASA, so I do things the way ASA wants them done, not the players.

Not mocking anyone else or their way of doing things, just the way I am.