slow pitch question

[Tap]

Talking slow pitch. Assume a pitch that exceeds the maximum arc allowed by the association in question. If a pitch that is "illegal" (ASA) or an "unfairly delivered pitch" (USSSA) hits a batter's bat, but the batter did not intend to swing, would it be treated the same as if he swung at the ball (i.e. it's fair or foul, depending on where it ends up)? My sense is yes.

ASA rules state that an illegal pitch is a ball unless swung at. USSSA rules state: "In each case an unfairly delivered ball shall be declared a ball by the Umpire; provided, however, that if the batsman strikes at any unfairly delivered Pitch, it shall be declared a Strike, with no penalty for the unfairly delivered Pitch. The ball remains in play if batted by the batsman."

There may be some ambiguity here in terms of what is a swing or when does the batter strike at a ball. My sense, though, is that the umpire would rule the ball fair or foul, depending on where the ball lands

Now if a pitcher throws it overhand or extremely fast (not just excessive speed, but a true fastball), the pitcher likely would be ejected or, at a minimum, removed from the pitching position by the umpire. But, as to the batter, would the answer be the same as above?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Tap
Talking slow pitch. Assume a pitch that exceeds the maximum arc allowed by the association in question. If a pitch that is "illegal" (ASA) or an "unfairly delivered pitch" (USSSA) hits a batter's bat, but the batter did not intend to swing, would it be treated the same as if he swung at the ball (i.e. it's fair or foul, depending on where it ends up)? My sense is yes.

ASA rules state that an illegal pitch is a ball unless swung at. USSSA rules state: "In each case an unfairly delivered ball shall be declared a ball by the Umpire; provided, however, that if the batsman strikes at any unfairly delivered Pitch, it shall be declared a Strike, with no penalty for the unfairly delivered Pitch. The ball remains in play if batted by the batsman."

There may be some ambiguity here in terms of what is a swing or when does the batter strike at a ball. My sense, though, is that the umpire would rule the ball fair or foul, depending on where the ball lands

Now if a pitcher throws it overhand or extremely fast (not just excessive speed, but a true fastball), the pitcher likely would be ejected or, at a minimum, removed from the pitching position by the umpire. But, as to the batter, would the answer be the same as above?

ASA 6.1-7 Effect.C addresses this point

"C. If a batter swings at or contacts any illegal pitch, it is nullified and all play stands"

Hope that helps,

[greymule]

Funny, I was reading that section of the rule book just tonight. Didn't think about a ball thrown overhand or at excessive speed, though. Certainly a high or flat pitch that managed to contact the bat would be made legal if it hit the bat. Or a pitch made with an illegal motion, say, without the proper pause. But if the pitcher fired one overhand and the ball happened to hit the bat, let's say behind the batter's head, I'd claim it did not qualify as a pitch.

Suppose that as the batter fell to the ground, the ball hit the bat and popped up to the catcher for the last out of the game (bases loaded, one run down, etc.). Or as the batter hit the dirt to avoid the fastball, a foot went completely out of the box just before the ball hit the bat. Call the batter out? Maybe by cell phone from the getaway car.

I'd claim my hand was up or something, then eject the pitcher (and call the cops to handle the riot to come).

However, if the batter hit the illegal pitch for a home run, I'd let it stand.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Funny, I was reading that section of the rule book just tonight. Didn't think about a ball thrown overhand or at excessive speed, though. Certainly a high or flat pitch that managed to contact the bat would be made legal if it hit the bat. Or a pitch made with an illegal motion, say, without the proper pause. But if the pitcher fired one overhand and the ball happened to hit the bat, let's say behind the batter's head, I'd claim it did not qualify as a pitch.

Suppose that as the batter fell to the ground, the ball hit the bat and popped up to the catcher for the last out of the game (bases loaded, one run down, etc.). Or as the batter hit the dirt to avoid the fastball, a foot went completely out of the box just before the ball hit the bat. Call the batter out? Maybe by cell phone from the getaway car.

I'd claim my hand was up or something, then eject the pitcher (and call the cops to handle the riot to come).

However, if the batter hit the illegal pitch for a home run, I'd let it stand.

Speaking ASA.

As much as that sounds like the preferable thing to do, we don't have the tools to accommodate it (referring to an "overhand" pitch).

To start with, you cannot enforce a penalty on an action which did not happen. If you insisted play was suspended, the only thing you can do is dump the player for UC.

You cannot have it both ways, if you are going to allow a HR, you must also permit other consequences of such an action. This would be a nice place for a bit of preventive umpiring if you can kill it fast enough. If the pitcher turns his/her body as if to through overhand, kill it then and have a nice little discussion with the pitcher about how you are going to handle such an act.