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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 08:50am
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"Abandonment"

Most of you don't, or rarely, monitor the eteamz rules board, so I am linking here (I hope), rather than retype. What I thought was an easy question took a different turn, and I'm now questioning my thought process.

Base Running Requirement
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 09:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Most of you don't, or rarely, monitor the eteamz rules board, so I am linking here (I hope), rather than retype. What I thought was an easy question took a different turn, and I'm now questioning my thought process.

Base Running Requirement
As I noted on eteamz, I don't think you can apply standard softball rules to a situation dictated by local rules to which they are contrary.

As it comes to the manner of your thought process, which part are you questioning?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 09:51am
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Ohhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 10:15am
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I worked a senior men's slow-pitch regional/national qualifier that had a 5-run per inning rule, and when I asked about a sitch pretty much exactly the same as the OP on the eteamz board, the tournament director just said to consider it a walk-off sitch. Again, that was their "rule". Like they say, when in Rome...
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 12:00pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
As I noted on eteamz, I don't think you can apply standard softball rules to a situation dictated by local rules to which they are contrary.

As it comes to the manner of your thought process, which part are you questioning?
I wouldn't consider the run scored; no run can score when the third out is made by the failure of any runner to safely advance to the next base. On appeal, the third out was a force out, so the run is taken off the board. That is how similar run rules are applied here locally; all forced runners must safely advance.

My question, as reflected in the title of this thread, is to the application of a missed base, which must be appealed, versus abandonment when a runner doesn't reach a base. My position is that when a batter stops running without reaching a base, the runner didn't abandon the base, the runner ended the attempt. How do you interpret that?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 03:08pm
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But... If the fifth run didn't score, then there was nothing to end the inning in the first place... so do you send them all back out there with one more out (assuming less than three)?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 07:50pm
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But... If the fifth run didn't score, then there was nothing to end the inning in the first place... so do you send them all back out there with one more out (assuming less than three)?
Take one more go-around with this. If two outs, the fifth run cannot score; if less than two outs, the third out wasn't made, so the fifth run did score.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 08:08pm
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Please tell me what I'm missing that this is not simply a 8.2.d. scenario?

Maybe I misread something or read it too fast.. something I've admittedly been known to do.
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Last edited by wadeintothem; Tue Oct 06, 2009 at 08:13pm.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 09:02pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
I wouldn't consider the run scored; no run can score when the third out is made by the failure of any runner to safely advance to the next base. On appeal, the third out was a force out, so the run is taken off the board. That is how similar run rules are applied here locally; all forced runners must safely advance.
I don't disagree, but we don't know exactly how that local rule is written or applied.

Quote:
My question, as reflected in the title of this thread, is to the application of a missed base, which must be appealed, versus abandonment when a runner doesn't reach a base. My position is that when a batter stops running without reaching a base, the runner didn't abandon the base, the runner ended the attempt. How do you interpret that?
I think we are on the same track as some of the reasoning behind why a 4th out appeal must be on a runner has scored. Bases loaded with one out. Grounder to F6 who throws to F4 coming across 2B to put out R4 and then throws to F5 to tag out R3 on the way to 3B, but not before R2 scores. B5 was slow out of the box and once R3 was ruled out veered off the path to head toward the dugout. If B5 walks into the dugout, do you make a ruling on abandonment or recognize an appeal for not touching 1B and disallow the run? Speaking ASA, the answer is no.

There is no reason to expect players to continue playing once the 3rd out has been recorded.
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Old Fri Oct 09, 2009, 04:06pm
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I work the leagues the poster does and once had a question about how to apply a local rule in terms of ASA rules. Apply the ASA rule to the local rule.

Hope that helps and has not muddled the picture.
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