2 Man Responsibilities/Mechanics

[rah718]

There is a mechanic rule I do not agree with which came up in a girls fastpitch game last week.

I am the PU, the bases are loaded. The BU is in the "C" slot. Fly ball is hit down the rightfield line. If I have to take both the catch and fair/foul. How is possible for me to take the lead runner at 3rd as the book says in a 2-man?

[Andy]

This situation actually comes up anytime you have a runner on third in a two umpire system.

Two theories:

1. Back away from the plate looking down the 1B extended with the runner in your periphial vision. See fair/foul, then the touch of the ball by the fielder, watch the tag up out of your periphial. Fair/foul and catch/no catch are your first priorities, then the tag up.

2. Pre-game with your BU to take the tag up of the runner on third on a ball down the right field line. Not the best option as the BU may have other runner responsibilities, but I have used it sucessfully in the past. I would only recommend doing this with an experienced partner that you are comfortable with.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rah718

There is a mechanic rule I do not agree with which came up in a girls fastpitch game last week.

I am the PU, the bases are loaded. The BU is in the "C" slot. Fly ball is hit down the rightfield line. If I have to take both the catch and fair/foul. How is possible for me to take the lead runner at 3rd as the book says in a 2-man?

To start, I guess we should know the association.

Then I guess we need to know that when you say "take the lead runner at 3rd" you mean the tag up, correct?

No matter what system you are working, in a two-umpire game, someone is going to have to see the touch and turn their head. On the 1B line, you have a better shot with peripheral vision than the BU does from the C, inside or out.

Yes, you are going to give R1 the benefit of any doubt since you are not going to be able to confirm the touch/catch and see them instanteously, not even with good peripheral since you will be more likely to pick up motion than actual contact.

While I am not in complete agreement with Andy as it pertains to the 1BLE do to the catcher's likely to step in front of you, I would not go more than a step to the 1B side of the plate unless necessary to see the catch. That is something that

It almost seems like a no brainer to have the PU take the tag a 1B (which can still be done), but you need to remember, depending on the game situation, there is just as likely to be a tag play at 2B and the BU needs to be in a good position for that.

This is only an issue if there is a fair/foul question. If this ball is not near or heading toward the line, there is no reason you need to be on the line. I would worry more about a foul ball on the 1B side in the same game situation that you may need to be in position to see whether the fielder enters DBT or possibly deal with spectator interference or there was actually a catch made. You cannot be in position to see that, the tag and be in a good position to make a call at the plate at the same time (unless you are playing on a field around here where you are lucky to have 10' of foul ground).

But now a question. What change in the mechanic would you suggest? (other than adding an umpire )

[rah718]

All points are well taken. As a veteran of over 25 yrs of umpiring I have seen many different scenarios. I just believe that the mechanic is wrong.

I would think it would be more advantageous for the PU to take fair/foul, the catch and the runner at first which are all in line with each other rather than use your peripheral.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rah718

All points are well taken. As a veteran of over 25 yrs of umpiring I have seen many different scenarios. I just believe that the mechanic is wrong.

I would think it would be more advantageous for the PU to take fair/foul, the catch and the runner at first which are all in line with each other rather than use your peripheral.

No argument. But do you have a solution for the runner at 3B? Now, BU is going to have two runners in opposite ranges of vision. Does BU watch it from inside or outside? Who has the call at 1B if there is a throwback there?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by rah718

All points are well taken. As a veteran of over 25 yrs of umpiring I have seen many different scenarios. I just believe that the mechanic is wrong.

I would think it would be more advantageous for the PU to take fair/foul, the catch and the runner at first which are all in line with each other rather than use your peripheral.

I can see your point of thinking there is an advantage to having the PU do that. However, see Mike's points about handling the runner at 3B. When you consider that runner, you have a problem with your proposed mechanic.

[NCASAUmp]

Where are our manners, guys?

Welcome to the board, rah718. You've come to the right place for answers.

[rah718]

Here again is my point. You are asking the PU to do the same thing (look in two different directions) you're suggesting is unreasonable for the BU to do.

The PU has more responsibilty of fair/foul, catch and tag ups than the BU who is only concentrating on the tag up.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rah718

Here again is my point. You are asking the PU to do the same thing (look in two different directions) you're suggesting is unreasonable for the BU to do.

The PU has more responsibilty of fair/foul, catch and tag ups than the BU who is only concentrating on the tag up.

Here again is my question. What do you suggest the mechanic be?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Does BU watch it from inside or outside? Who has the call at 1B if there is a throwback there?

If the mechanic was changed to have the PU take the tag at 1st and the BU the others; then the throw to 1st would also have to be PU; and of course any play at HP might be the difficult part.

If the mechanic was changed to have the PU take the tag at 1st; the better place for the BU taking the 2nd/3rd tagups is outside near the 3BL, IOW C3. That allows a good angle and a clear path to 2nd for any play there.

[UMP 64]

This situation can be kicked around for ever, with no "GOOD" solution, to have every base & sit. covered.
Communication w/partner and a good pre-game w/partner is essential requirements.
What it comes down to it, there are only 2 umpires, and you cannot see "everything". Some may say this is a excuse, but you can only watch so many things at 1 time.
Now if you had eyes like the actor Marty Feldman, (deceased) you could see both the 1st base line and 3rd base tag up.
Good luck.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UMP 64

This situation can be kicked around for ever, with no "GOOD" solution, to have every base & sit. covered.
Communication w/partner and a good pre-game w/partner is essential requirements.
What it comes down to it, there are only 2 umpires, and you cannot see "everything". Some may say this is a excuse, but you can only watch so many things at 1 time.

Thank you!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If the mechanic was changed to have the PU take the tag at 1st and the BU the others; then the throw to 1st would also have to be PU; and of course any play at HP might be the difficult part.

Which brings us back to what is more important, and throwback to 1B or a play at the plate which may or may not score a run.

If the mechanic was changed to have the PU take the tag at 1st

; the better place for the BU taking the 2nd/3rd tagups is outside near the 3BL, IOW C3. That allows a good angle and a clear path to 2nd for any play there.

I agree with the 1st part, but there is no clear path to a good position for a call at 2B. If you try to call if from the outside, you may be at a 180 to the play. The best place would be inside (IMO), but to get there, you have to deal with either R1 or R2.

And in either case, that is a good distance to close and still get a good position from outside the 3BL