help with getting into position
 

It seems like I am not getting into the best position when a girl is stealing. This happens most often when I am positioned on the fielder's left shoulder. If she gets her lead and then heads back to her base, I go along with her to be in best position in case of a throw back. My problem is if she is stealing and gets a good jump. I am in a set postion at the time of pitch. She gets a running start. By the time she is approaching the base she is trying to steal, I am too far behind her, or if I am close, I am still moving to make the call. What tips do you have to be able to get there and set up before she does? Should I always start on the fielder's right shoulder to be able to get a head start, despite what the umpire manual says, or any other help would be appreciated. Maybe I should head toward the advanced base first, and if she isn't stealing, could follow her back in case of a pickoff attempt. I am by no means slow, it's just I seem to be behind the play too often. Dave

The first thing I do when I have a runner on 1B is to make a judgement about her speed. I then position myself as far away from 2B as possible but close enough to beat her to 2B on a steal. The faster the runner, the farther away from 1B I set up. Most of the time, I am 20 - 25' off the foul line.

It's been suggested to me that I start just off the shoulder of F4, 10' back. I believe that F4 usually has a different agenda than I do and her positioning has very little to do with calling runners out on tag plays. Therefore, I set up where I believe that I am in position to best do my job.

I AM NOT, by any means, fast. However, unless I completely don't get a jump on a steal, I am always in position at 2B. I think it has much to do with desire, position, feel for the game.

I work between pitches, just like you. I am, however, willing to sacrifice distance on the pick at 1B in order to get into position at 2B for the steal. Sometimes I don't get back to the line on a pick at 1B, but it is rare.

I'm curious to know what your set position is like. A set position should not encumber you so much that it takes you out of the play. Instead, a good set position will get you READY for the play.

What exactly do you do when you go set? Are your hands on your knees when you go set? Do you find that your set position requires an extra motion or two (such as standing up straight) before you start running?

Yes, yes, I am a slow pitch guy. But we still go set, too, when on the bases and behind the plate. And we also have stealing in SP. :p

Getting "set" does not mean getting stuck. It means getting set up to get a good start once the ball is in play.

My getting set is with my hands on my thighs. I do this right before the pitcher starts her pitch. Is this incorrect? Also, if time allows, I get set like that at a base before a play happens. Is this OK? Dave

I think if you're using your hands to support your weight, you're adding more motions than you need in order to get moving. You're pushing up off of your thighs, and you're raising up before you can even begin to move.

In slow pitch and fast pitch, there's no need to get set in this way. Keep your feet shoulder-width apart and parallel to the baseline. Bend your knees slightly and place your weight slightly more on the balls of your feet than on your heels. If you lean forward, lean only slightly forward, don't bend forward. You should be able to spring to the side, one way or the other.

Think of how a good shortstop gets ready on the pitch. They're not leaning forward or bending over, are they? No, instead, they're mostly upright with their feet the way I described above. They're not supporting their weight by putting their hands on their thighs. They're ready to spring in any direction.

Putting your hands on your thighs is not expressly forbidden, but if it takes you out of the play by adding more motions before you're moving, it's not a good idea. However, I did see a UIC this weekend specifically address this with a fellow umpire who was having problems similar to what you were describing.

That's pretty much all I've got. I'm a SP guy, but the set position between SP and FP are exactly the same. Anyone else want to bring up suggestions? Preferably someone who comes from a more FP-oriented world? :)

I agree with others that it might be good to take a look at your "set position". Mine is not the norm, with one foot slightly in front of the other, knees bent and only slightly bent at the waist; almost the way runners start in longer races and, if I need to go to 1st or 2nd, making the first two steps big ones.

When running to second, I do not run directly toward second base, but to a postion that will be 10-15 feet on the outfield side of 2nd. That point is about two steps shorter than the other and also I have a better angle.

In my area, more emphasis is placed on being there for the pickoff throw. We know we have to get to a position to make a call at 2B, but the snap throw has to be anticipated (cheated for), requiring as little movement as necessary.
Fortunately, I'm still quick, so I do cheat to 1B.

I also have that 1-2 step thing going on during the windmill. Huge difference, no more blown calf muscles, up to speed real fast.

I thought moving during the windup was only allowed while on the line with nobody on base. I have always been taught to be set with runner/runners on base. Dave

I certainly don't wish to downplay what is taught in your area, but you may want to consider this and politely ask the powers that be in your neighborhood:

Which play happens more often - the pickoff attempt at first or the steal of second?

If you work between pitches, you can position yourself closer to second base with a runner on first. Once the pitch is made and the runner is not stealing, take a step or two toward first base, then you are already moving in that direction if the catcher makes a pickoff throw and you will be in a decent position to see the play.

Two-person mechanics is all about priorities. In the world of priorities, it is more crucial that I get the call correct at 2B because that could mean a runner winds up in scoring position. (Of course, we want to get all of our calls correct, but sometimes we have to choose where the bulk of our attention is paid.)

The call at 1B is lower priority for two reasons: 1) they already occupy the base & 2) they're not in scoring position.

For me, the key to getting into position at 2B for the steal is to work directly parallel with the baseline from your starting position. If you take a path towards the bag, that's gonna cost you a step or two because it's slightly farther to get to the same angle. (Who said high school geometry wouldn't come in handy someday?)

One caveat: look out for a second base-player who takes a shallow angle to a backup position (too many of which do).

I believe Andy is seeing the priority as where is your most likely play - same approach I have. In a 2-ump game and in the B position, I'm reading F3 and F4 before determining my starting position. With F3 way up and F4 not indicating a pick-off is coming, I'm 35-25 - more toward 2B. If a pick-off looks likely, I'm 25, maybe even 20 ft from the right field line and as close as I can get (depending on where F4 is positioned).

Good tips, Steve. Once I get back on the field with a new leg, I'll have to use every trick I can to compensate and get to calling position more quickly. The good news is that I was so slow before the amputation that nobody will notice a difference. ;)

Sounds like a few umpires I know, except they have no excuse. :rolleyes:

Here's three more!!

3) As others have indicated, it more apparent when it is coming,
4) It is a less prevalent play; more steals than pickoff attempts, and
5) You really can get help from the PU on the pickoff (a mandated go for help in the NCAA, if asked), with angle, when you cannot get credible help (nor should you ever ask) at second.

In theory that is good except when second baseman is playing super deep (which some do), if you go parallel to the line without angling somewhat toward 2B, you will be too far away from the play to be creditable. In these instances, you need to get in closer. Dave

That would be true if you allow F4 to dictate where you stand. I don't, and it isn't required that you do. "Behind" F4 is behind the imaginary line you might draw between F3 and F4, and far enough to her side that you are more than a step and a leap away. Our positioning is based on softball players playing in reasonable positions, and her decision to play where knowledgable players wouldn't shouldn't affect us.

So, when she gets that deep, I move forward and into the hole; and still move directly parallel to the base line on the steal.

I agree with Steve. The key is to not get in the way of the 2nd baseman when they field a ball. You move farther away from them as you move in.

I'd hate to see my evaluation if I started anywhere to the front side of a fielder. Dave

Shouldn't be bad if it was an NCAA evaluation.

What's the diference (distraction wise) with an umpire starting in front of a fielder or a runner running in front of a fielder?

If I were a fielder...i would rather have someone stationary until the ball is hit (at which time they are trying to get OUT of my way) in front of me rather than a runner moving towards me as I am trying to field the ball?

If fielders take unusual positions (depths) the umpire should adjust to an unusual starting position that will allow them do do their job and cover their responsibilities.

Y'all don't know what "deep" is until you work men's A or B slowpitch.;)

Try F4 & F6 about 20'-30' beyond the baseline with F3 about 15'-25' behind 1B. And then F7 inserts himself about 20' behind 2B. :eek: (and remember, there is stealing there, too).

I agree with Steve. This method is basically to satisfy the rules as they pertain to an umpire being hit by a batted ball which has yet to pass an infielder other than the pitcher.

It is a good mechanic. Recently, I've seen umpires come back from a NUS and using this mechanic, end up literally standing forward of a fielder. I'm not talking about a couple steps in front 15'-20' to the side, but about 4 steps in front less than 10' away.

While standing behind an imaginary line satisfies the rules, an umpire still needs to make sure they are in a position avoid getting involed in a possible play. Avoiding interference doesn't mean crap if you have a player run over you or take a shot by a batted ball.

And, like others have mentioned, I, too, will give a call @ 2B a higher priority in positioning than 1B for the same reasons.

The umpire is there before the pitch.

There is no comparison.

As an umpire, I will not work in the hole. I will do everything I can to be a step behind and just off a shoulder. Once the fielder takes that first step, I've pivoted out of their way. I have found when two people are moving and trying to avoid each other, half the time it almost becomes impossible to avoid each other. I believe this is one of the reasons retired runners are NOT required to abandon their base path.

A runner is a participant and, as a fielder, you know their presence cannot keep you from making a play. The umpire though, well, I don't believe any fielder will, no should they, accept the need to navigate around an umpire to make a play on a batted ball.

AFAIC, it is their game on their field. IMO, the umpire should adjust to them and if that means not getting your preferred position, you do the best you can from the position you can get.

Doesn't matter in this case who's game it suposedly is...both have jobs to do (and generally I know who is gonna get fired if they screw up). The good ones can git er done!!

No, the runner is on 1B, not standing in F4's line of sight.That's right, you work that real slow defensive game. Nevermind:rolleyes:

I'm more worried about the game I'm working. If someone is that manic about where I am standing as to not interfere with the play, that's their problem. I don't need to work their games.

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The runners in most of my games now a days lead off they don't stand on 1b...LOL

Prior to the pitch? Only if you aren't doing your job.

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And the umpires can be about in the same line of sight...and not moving....not a distraction

Yeah, they are a distraction. As a player, I have stopped a game until an umpire moved, twice. As a UIC, I have been asked to have umpire's move by players, FP & SP.

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Yep...the slow games....and then there are the Supers with BeP,

You mean the same guy who pulled me aside after a game in OKC and told me I was moving too much behind the plate after avoiding the pitch, told me to stand where I wanted and stay there. Yet at the subsequent UIC clinic NUS members had us outside behind the Biltmore telling us to always position yourself behind the catcher. Pretty rough trying to survive any evaluation when you are getting conflicting authoritive direction.

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The Majors with BiP

Been there, done that. Like him, but didn't care for the manner in which he introduced new mechanics at the majors.

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and the Majors FP with TW along with some very fine NCAA officials.... Very slow games???.....:rolleyes:

Never had the pleasure, but if I wanted to do baseball, I wouldn't have walked away from it after 22 years.

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Originally Posted by luvthegame (Post 625841) I am talking about the umpires (I've seen it done) who can stand where THEY need to and NOT interfere. Most of them are OK working their games.

Hot damn! Finally got the formatting correct :D

However, that didn't keep you from taking a comment out of context. I thought I was clearly referring to your noted fear of termination and whomever could effect such a thing. Apparently not.

Talk about formatting? I don't know of anyone more adept at cutting and pasting only what they need to...to not address their assertions or assumptions...but to CYA and redirect their agenda...Delaware is lucky to have such an expert!! :)

And yet you still haven't addressed the issue of worrying about being fired:rolleyes:

And you haven't addressed 3-4 of your inaccurate comments. :rolleyes:

But...just to play along (you have chopped up the posts and redirected your comments and the topic so much I had to go back and check the context).......alas...simple enough....if the umpire screws up enough they will get fired, they are held accountable in managed programs... If the player screws up they don't get fired....so I am gonna do and go where I need to go to get my job done...that includes sometimes inside a fielder. Never...never..repeat never...had a complaint about it at the NCAA level.

And the games are pretty damn fast!! :eek:

Generally, when in B, if you cheat, cheat towards 2B.

But read your players and your game. Some catchers (especially male) throw nonstop to 1B and you may need to cheat over that way - ESPECIALLY when they are very good at it and who will try it.

Same thing when in "C", I've had a men's catcher pick off players from 2B as a hobby. You end up cheating towards 2B.. no one was stealing on that type of catcher anyway and you had to be ready because the pick off throw was coming and it was going to be good and close.

Know the game.. with two outs, stealing is less likely, so you may cheat slightly towards a potential pick off or maybe not cheat at all.

IMO, female catchers are less likely to either be good at pick offs or aggressively try it - but there are exceptions. So get to know those catchers that are good at it.

If you have a big fat girl #8 batter on 1B... no cheating required. For what?

If you have quickie lil skinny slapper with no outs get to 1B.. you know she's going. Cheat to 2b a lilbit.

Steal signs if you can. That is helpful.

Some teams are very aggressive so you know the coach is predisposed to sending runners.

Well you get the idea.

Be a student of the game.

Know the count, know the outs, know your players and coaches, and know what is going on and adjust slightly accordingly.

Know what you will do "if" before each play. Keep your head in the game.

I agree w/ Wade. Read the game and make the calls. Also know where Rome is and do as they do:)

Geesh!! You should be an instructor somewhere!! Good stuff!!:)

Really? You mean YOU think they are inaccurate. Please feel free to bring them to the forefront (or PM so we don't bore these fine folks) and I'll be more than happy to offer an explanation or correction.

Hell, I don't think any game that takes more than 60 minutes is fast ;)