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-   -   Not on lineup card !!!! (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/54502-not-lineup-card.html)

THREE Tue Sep 01, 2009 08:01am

Not on lineup card !!!!
 
O.K.! Heres the deal! Bottom of the third inning. Offensive coach request timeout. Coach tells plate umpire that #3, his second baseman is due to bat next.(she has already played defense in top of first and second inning) However, he (the coach) forgot to put her in the lineup. She is not listed anywhere on the lineup. Coach wants to know what to do? (not relevant but #3 is standing at plate with bat in her hands)

CecilOne Tue Sep 01, 2009 08:11am

Unfortunate, but in a sanctioned game, #3 can not be added.
She can be a sub, as a PH for example, if the coach wants here batting right then.
As far as already fielding in all three innings, there was no appeal by the other team, so that stands. However, unless used as a sub, #3 can not field anymore.

Would anyone think the coach was trying to just pick the spot she was needed most to have her at bat? :eek: :(

RKBUmp Tue Sep 01, 2009 08:14am

Dont know why the coach didnt list her on the line up card to begin with, but as long as she is a legal player on his roster she can be added to the line up card. 4-1-A2

Defense didnt catch her playing so nothing to do there. Add her to the line up card, make the substitution and play on.

CecilOne Tue Sep 01, 2009 08:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 623227)
Dont know why the coach didnt list her on the line up card to begin with, but as long as she is a legal player on his roster she can be added to the line up card. 4-1-A2

Defense didnt catch her playing so nothing to do there. Add her to the line up card, make the substitution and play on.

I didn't think the OP referred to a sub not listed, but someone supposed to be in the actual lineup.

"(already played defense in top of first and second inning) However, he (the coach) forgot to put her in the lineup)"

Dakota Tue Sep 01, 2009 08:35am

Were there only 8 players listed in the batting order?

Steve M Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by THREE (Post 623224)
O.K.! Heres the deal! Bottom of the third inning. Offensive coach request timeout. Coach tells plate umpire that #3, his second baseman is due to bat next.(she has already played defense in top of first and second inning) However, he (the coach) forgot to put her in the lineup. She is not listed anywhere on the lineup. Coach wants to know what to do? (not relevant but #3 is standing at plate with bat in her hands)

So, PU did not check the lineup card very well at the pre-game?
Like Tom asked - there are only 8 defensive players listed?

Andy Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:00am

I echo Steve and Tom.

Why wasn't this caught at the pregame lineup check?

But back to the original question....let's say the lineup only listed eight batters and the PU either didn't check or miscounted or whatever....now what?

I can't see making the offense play shorthanded for something that should have been caught by the PU, but it also doesn't seem right to just insert the player in the lineup and move on...

Dakota Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:11am

I'd let him put the player in the lineup last, but I would not allow him to insert her in the middle. I would not consider that a sub entry, either; just a lineup mistake being corrected. She can't be a sub, since no one is coming out.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:34am

Hang on folks! You are ready to crucify the PU and we haven't even found out how many names were on the original line up yet.

For as much as we know, this could be a SP game or local rules which demand/allow more than nine batters.

THREE, can you give us more information such as:

Type of game
Special local rules
Number of players on original line-up
Did the umpire check the line-up cards at the pre game

Thanks

THREE Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:46am

Type of game----Youth Fastpitch

Special local rules (2 EP's & 1 BB (base bandit)

Number of players on original line-up (as turned in by coach)--11

Did the umpire check the line-up cards at the pregame-yes!
Did he catch that no one was listed for 2nd base? No!
And why does it matter if he did or did not.
Do you have one rule to apply it he checked line-up
and another rule to apply if he didn't check line-up
and then another rule if he checked line-up and didn't catch problem.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by THREE (Post 623260)
Type of game----Youth Fastpitch

Special local rules (2 EP's & 1 BB (base bandit)

Number of players on original line-up (as turned in by coach)--11

Did the umpire check the line-up cards at the pregame-yes!
Did he catch that no one was listed for 2nd base? No!
And why does it matter if he did or did not.
Do you have one rule to apply it he checked line-up
and another rule to apply if he didn't check line-up
and then another rule if he checked line-up and didn't catch problem.

No, the rules are the same, but if there were only 8 names on the original, the PU really screwed up. Couldn't care less if the umpire didn't notice there was no one assigned to 2B.

I don't see where the umpire is wrong at all. To the OP, the girl sits and was never officially in the game, but is now an available substitute. Then again, I'm playing this by ear.

argodad Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:16pm

Seems like this is a local rec league by Three's description.

My gut reaction is to add her after the last listed batter and play on. (Completely unsupported by rule reference -- but in the spirit of getting them in the game. If local rules have two EPs and a runner, my interpretation is that they want to get kids on the field.)

Dakota Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by THREE (Post 623260)
Type of game----Youth Fastpitch

Special local rules (2 EP's & 1 BB (base bandit)

Number of players on original line-up (as turned in by coach)--11... (removed stuff that doesn't matter...)

If the lineup was complete with 11 players (sounds like it was), then the lineup was official when accepted by the plate umpire. It doesn't matter whether or not he intended to have her in the lineup - he didn't.

She can be entered into the game as a sub. Her prior playing on defense is irrelevant since no one caught it at the time.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by argodad (Post 623267)
Seems like this is a local rec league by Three's description.

I certainly hope so!!! :eek:

Quote:

My gut reaction is to add her after the last listed batter and play on. (Completely unsupported by rule reference -- but in the spirit of getting them in the game. If local rules have two EPs and a runner, my interpretation is that they want to get kids on the field.)
Assuming that the present line up is not already at the limit, right? Now, if the league had a "bat the bench" allowance, sure, knock yourself out.

Tru_in_Blu Wed Sep 02, 2009 02:40pm

"Base bandit" is a new term for me. I didn't realize I've been so sheltered all this time.

So, what exactly does a base bandit do? Is it someone who can't bat or field but can run like crazy? When can the bandit be employed? For any player at any time? Once a game? Once an inning? For a designated player only, I.E. as courtesy runner for pitcher or catcher?

Thanx.


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