On Deck Batter

[RKBUmp]

Had this come up during high school ball, I was BU.

Runner on 2, single to right field. Runner attempts to score on the hit, throw from F9 is in dirt, deflects off catcher and makes contact with ODB, runner was well ahead of throw, no chance for an out. B/R is advancing to 2nd on throw to home from F9 and is within probably 15' of 2nd when ball contacts the ODB.

Live ball play on, or interference on the ODB, runner closest to home out?

[NCASAUmp]

I don't know if there's a difference, but just to be clear, is this NFHS or ASA? Some high school associations use ASA.

[RKBUmp]

nfhs

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Had this come up during high school ball, I was BU.

Runner on 2, single to right field. Runner attempts to score on the hit, throw from F9 is in dirt, deflects off catcher and makes contact with ODB, runner was well ahead of throw, no chance for an out. B/R is advancing to 2nd on throw to home from F9 and is within probably 15' of 2nd when ball contacts the ODB.

Live ball play on, or interference on the ODB, runner closest to home out?

Looks like no play available, if ball is by ODB and F2 chasing.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Had this come up during high school ball, I was BU.

Runner on 2, single to right field. Runner attempts to score on the hit, throw from F9 is in dirt, deflects off catcher and makes contact with ODB, runner was well ahead of throw, no chance for an out. B/R is advancing to 2nd on throw to home from F9 and is within probably 15' of 2nd when ball contacts the ODB.

Live ball play on, or interference on the ODB, runner closest to home out?

Ball is dead when contacting ODB.
If there was chance of an out, runner being played on is out.
It there was no chance for an out, no one is out.
Runner returns to 1st (last base at time ball becomes dead)

[rwest]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Had this come up during high school ball, I was BU.

Runner on 2, single to right field. Runner attempts to score on the hit, throw from F9 is in dirt, deflects off catcher and makes contact with ODB, runner was well ahead of throw, no chance for an out. B/R is advancing to 2nd on throw to home from F9 and is within probably 15' of 2nd when ball contacts the ODB.

Live ball play on, or interference on the ODB, runner closest to home out?

There is a difference between ASA and NFHS when it comes to ODB interference. In ASA the BR or the runner closest to home is out. In NFHS it is always the BR or Runner being played on. So in ASA the runner being played on maybe the runner between 2nd and 3rd, but the runner that is out could be the runner between 3rd and home, if they've not scored yet. In NFHS during the same play it would be the runner between 2nd and 3rd.

In both ASA and NFHS there has to be a play. I believe NFHS uses the word "obvious" when describing the potential for an out. Now if there is no play available, then you have a choice depending on how you interpret the ODB. Is he/she actively involved in the game? Neither NFHS or ASA makes it clear either way. If you say the ODB is actively in the game, then you must treat them the same as the base coaches. If you say they are not actively involved in the game (which is my opinion) then you have a blocked ball. Return all runners to the last base touched. Again, this is assuming no out was possbile in the umpires judgment.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a difference between ASA and NFHS when it comes to ODB interference. In ASA the BR or the runner closest to home is out. In NFHS it is always the BR or Runner being played on. So in ASA the runner being played on maybe the runner between 2nd and 3rd, but the runner that is out could be the runner between 3rd and home, if they've not scored yet. In NFHS during the same play it would be the runner between 2nd and 3rd.

In both ASA and NFHS there has to be a play. I believe NFHS uses the word "obvious" when describing the potential for an out. Now if there is no play available, then you have a choice depending on how you interpret the ODB. Is he/she actively involved in the game? Neither NFHS or ASA makes it clear either way. If you say the ODB is actively in the game, then you must treat them the same as the base coaches. If you say they are not actively involved in the game (which is my opinion) then you have a blocked ball. Return all runners to the last base touched. Again, this is assuming no out was possbile in the umpires judgment.

I think NFHS is pretty clear....

"ART. 15 . . . The on-deck batter commits interference or offensive team equipment causes a blocked ball (and interference).

PENALTY: (Art. 15) The runner being played on is out. If no play is obvious, no player is out, but runners shall return to the last base touched at the time the ball is declared dead."

[rwest]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I think NFHS is pretty clear....

"ART. 15 . . . The on-deck batter commits interference or offensive team equipment causes a blocked ball (and interference).

PENALTY: (Art. 15) The runner being played on is out. If no play is obvious, no player is out, but runners shall return to the last base touched at the time the ball is declared dead."

The words "and interference" in parenthesis is somewhat confusing to me. It's either interference and then we get an out or its a blocked ball and we put the runners back. You can't have a blocked ball and interference. The two are mutually exclusive. I guess you could say that interference by someone not in the game is a blocked ball but why confuse the matter. Just call it interference. The words "and interference" means that both a blocked ball and interference has to occur. That being said it is possible that we have a live ball play on in NFHS. If there was a blocked ball but no interference then what do we have? According to the rule above it has to be both blocked and interference.

The problem I have is how can you have interference if there is no play possible? What have you interfered with? Nothing. So, no I don't agree that it is clear.

[Dakota]

In the rule proper, they state interference must be committed, hence a play must be being made.

Yet, the penalty seems to provide an enforcement for when there was no play (and hence no interference).

Perhaps what the penalty means by "not obvious" is that the runner who is being played on is not obvious... but if that is so, why is no runner out (as opposed to the closest to home being out)? If there was interference, somebody is out.

I agree... not clearly written.

[HugoTafurst]

Maybe I'm reading it too simple....
As I see it, if there is an obvious play, it is interference...
If there is no obvious play, it's a blocked ball (dead ball, runners return).
That's how I'm calling it.

[Dakota]

That is probably what they meant (and how I would call it, too). But, its wording is a bit convoluted.

[RKBUmp]

Why would a ball that unintentionally hit an on deck batter necessarily be considered a blocked ball?

A blocked ball is one that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game or which touches loose equipment......

Is an on deck batter not also a part of the active game? A space is provided for them in live ball territory, they are allowed to be in live ball territory during play and can act as an additional base coach directing a player between 3rd and home plate. A batted or thrown ball that unintentionally hits a base coach is not interference and is a live ball. Same would go for an errant throw or deflection that goes off an umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Why would a ball that unintentionally hit an on deck batter necessarily be considered a blocked ball?

A blocked ball is one that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game or which touches loose equipment......

Is an on deck batter not also a part of the active game? A space is provided for them in live ball territory, they are allowed to be in live ball territory during play and can act as an additional base coach directing a player between 3rd and home plate. A batted or thrown ball that unintentionally hits a base coach is not interference and is a live ball. Same would go for an errant throw or deflection that goes off an umpire.

No, the ODB is not part of the game. The rules only allow the ODB permission to leave their assigned area for certain purposes, they do not provide them with any protection or "rights" as it pertains to what occurs when they leave that area.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Why would a ball that unintentionally hit an on deck batter necessarily be considered a blocked ball?

A blocked ball is one that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game or which touches loose equipment......

Is an on deck batter not also a part of the active game? A space is provided for them in live ball territory, they are allowed to be in live ball territory during play and can act as an additional base coach directing a player between 3rd and home plate. A batted or thrown ball that unintentionally hits a base coach is not interference and is a live ball. Same would go for an errant throw or deflection that goes off an umpire.

To add to what Mike said, the rule book has specific language regarding a base coach being hit by a thrown ball. It's a live ball if it was not deemed intentional, otherwise interference if there was a play to be made. There is no such language regarding the ODB, which leads me to believe that the ODB is not actively involved in the game. They can leave the On deck circle to direct a player coming home. In that instance I would say they are actively involved in the game. Also, when they leave the On deck circle to become a batter they are in the game. A part from those two situations, they are not.

Maybe it's time to ban the ODB and tell them to take their warmup swings in the dugout. Some games need a little excitement.