Substitutions

Bandit · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 17, 2002, 07:51am

I know that when I do the pre-game meeting with the coachs I look at the lineup cards count players, ck #'s, ect and then hand it back to the coaches with the statement "please ck it over one more time make sure everything is the way you want it...when you hand it back to me it will be official"...my question...when a coach make a change between innings when does the change become "official".

Del-Blue · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 17, 2002, 08:34am

The change becomes official when it is made. You only a cept a change when it is going to happen.

At the end of 1st inning. Coach: Blue Sue will bat third this inning for Deb.
Blue: Coach when You want Sue to bat, tell me then.

Coach: Alice will pinch run for Tonyha, and Tonyha will re-enter
Blue: Coach I got the pinch runner change, but when Tonyha re-enters tell me then.

Never take a change until it happens.

Bob

Bandit · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 18, 2002, 07:49am

Del-Blue, what happened to me was this....Top of 3, home team taking the field, 1st base coach on way back to dugout says "Blue, #11/Sue Smith will be going in for #2/Ann Williams. OK, I report change to visitors bench and fields score book ( this was a national qualifier). Warm up pitches are done by this point, throw down has taken place, I'm putting my mask on ready to take my position behind the catcher...the third base coach from the home team yells for time (I assume the 3rd base coach is the Head coach), I stop play as the coach comes towards me and he says his partner has made a mistake..#11/Sue Smith is suppose to be going in for #3/Becky Jones. I say sorry coach, the change has already taken place and been reported. He's not happy, more with his partner, and the original change stands...Did I do right? Does the fact that no pitch has taken place mean anything. Is this a correctable change because no batting change has taken place as the team was going onto defense? If a home team makes a change and the visiting team never catchs it before the home team corrects it it is nothing but a screw-up, does that apply here? I might be rehashing something in my mind far to much also. :-)

Del-Blue · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 19, 2002, 05:37am

This is one of those times where I think you have a little leeway. I know I have had that same situation several times. I have handeled it both ways. If this is a coach that has been on your case all game I probably would have done it the way you did. If it's been a good game with no problems, I might just correct it. I think you could just make the change, since play hasn't started and you would be fine even though at the start of the game after you get the lineups and a coach wants to make a change before play starts it is still a substitute. No problem in my eye the way you did it, but I think you could have just made the change.

My Opinion only, and does not reflect the proper ruling by ASA.

Bob

Bandit · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 19, 2002, 08:38am

I may get in trouble for this and it may start a series of replys that could go several ways. But with that risk, Del-Blue, I take pride in understanding the game and having been both a player and coach at both ends of the spectrum. Sometimes I think that if umpires would maybe make changes and be a administrator of the game by the spirt of the game some problems may be avoided. And this means sometimes not going by the rule of the book. I don't mean play with a uneven playing field but rather in the areas that won't effect the outcome of the game. I appreciate your response and agree that this could have been one of these times

Del-Blue · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 19, 2002, 10:21am

I agree with you 100%. Sometimes we get so caught up in the letter of the rule, we forget about common sense.

SDUMP · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 19, 2002, 03:37pm

Guys, if you go to the ASA rulebook - Rule 4.6 A-B, it says if a substitute comes into the game without reporting, it is not an illegal substitution until a pitch (legal or illegal) is made. Looking at that rule, you probably should have let the coach change the substitution and consider it more of a book-keeping error. After all, it is only ink and they were playing for blood, being a qualifier and all.

Bandit · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 19, 2002, 04:08pm

Thanks SDUMP. Good catch. I knew somewhere in the book it would support that course of action but just could not find it when I looked for it. I may have got lucky. Like it was stated earlier both courses of action could be "sold". And the coach was more upset with his own bench partner than anything else.