Opinions please.
 

Runner 1 on first base, 2 outs. Slow roller hit to second baseman waiting in base line to field batted ball. Second baseman does not field the ball but attempts to tag the runner. Second baseman does not have possession of the ball. The tag trips the runner. Runner gets up and continues on to second base while second baseman picks up ball and throws to shortstop who gets the force out. I ruled obstruction. Anyone "see" anything different?

Speaking ASA? Can't say I do. The fielder was not in the act of fielding a batted ball, but was in the act of doing something else instead. If she abandoned her attempt to field the batted ball on her own (ie., not caused by a runner's actions), then that's her mistake, and she loses her protection from an OBS call.

Lets try Fake Tag - Rule 1 and R/S 19.

Im having a hard time visualizing the play. Did F4 make a "phantom tag" while the ball was still rolling to him/her or did the ball fail to make it into their glove and they tried to field the ball and make the tag all in one motion?

Was the runner running behind or in front of F4?

8-5-B-4
8-7-J
I think these would be the 2 pertinent rules, depending on how you see the situation develop, but I think you either have nothing if it was a catch the ball in 1 motion and try to apply a tag (maybe same principle as the "tangle play") or OBS on F4 for applying a "phantom tag"



you mean INT call?

No.

From the info provided you got it right imo.

Of course, not, we weren't there :D

Sounds like a solid call to me. Don't know the condition of the runner, but if that trip caused any level of injury, F4 may be heading to the parking lot.

Just for clarification, are you suggesting using the level of injury to determine malicious contact or unsportsmanlike behavior?

Are we still keeping the running redundancy joke alive?

Malicious contact is unsportsmanlike behavior.

Just for clarification, just where did I suggest that be the case?

Okay, are you using the fact that there was any injury at all in determining MC or USC?

How is this redundant? The two are not mutually inclusive.

Correct, but if you're looking at this sitch from a "malicious contact" point of view, either way you slice it, it's USC.

I think it would be a stretch to call MC in a scenario such as this. Depending upon the level of play and the game, it seems more likely to me that the defender is simply rushing to try and make the play.

I saw it twice last evening working men's SP wreck league. Both times it was at HP and both times the catcher tried to make a tag before he had the ball. And both times he was muttering to himself: "catch the ball first, dummy".

That said, I do believe that OBS is the correct call in the OP. I can just envision a young JO player becoming nervous about trying to make such a play and forgetting to get the ball first.

Not everyone that falls down gets hurt, and sometimes people who don't fall down at all get seriously hurt [Dan Marino?].

OK, but how does that mean it is not OBS?

Yes, just as I would with a fake tag which, by definition, this is.

I don't think I said it wasn't OBS.

If you read in total:
"That said, I do believe that OBS is the correct call in the OP. I can just envision a young JO player becoming nervous about trying to make such a play and forgetting to get the ball first."

Technically, I believe the above statement is correct, as the definition of a fake tag is:

A form of obstruction by a fielder who attempts to tag a runner without the ball and thereby impedes a runner advancing or returning to a base.
In my catcher misses ball but tries to tag runner anyway scenario, I'm unlikely to call OBS since the runner scored anyway.

I'm more likely to call OBS when F5 positions him/herself on the base and pretends to be in the act of receiving a throw from the outfield in an attempt to get the runner to slide into the base or slow down when in fact no play is being made on that runner. In fact, I have called that exact play a couple of times in the past couple of years and added a warning to the coach and player that it better not happen again.

I think this is one of those rules where intent actually does come into play, as in the intent of the defender attempting to deceive a baserunner. While this is acceptable practice in MLB and is seen quite often on a run and hit where the runner doesn't pick up where the batted ball is, I think the actual intent for ASA and other associations is to not allow this deception. So maybe this is one of those rules that might use a bit of wordsmithing.

A tag without the ball in almost all cases will result in OBS, but not UC or MC. A "pretend" tag would carry the additional penalty of UC.

I think what many of us had in mind was that the fielder was never even attempting to field the batted ball and was attempting a "bush league" play.

She must've been hanging around too many of her daddy's SP games. ;)

How do you know it wasn't her daddy's SP game? There is no indication of the game, division or class.

I was about to say the same thing. And I couldn't tell by the OP that a "bush play" was being attempted. Apparently we read things differently, which is why I always get in trouble taking the ASA exam. So my advice is, don't read too much into it. ;)

OK, how'd you do that? How'd you edit your original post without it saying it was edited? Because, I know with absolute certainty that originally, your post said, ""That said, I do not believe that OBS is the correct call in the OP.... :o

I plead ignorance. I'm just not that savvy with this posting stuff. I'm never sure when I log in what's new or not because sometimes the new stuff is bolded, and sometimes it's not. I log out and exit the browser I was in.

So who knows? I always attribute stuff like that to gremlins. :)

Yeah, gremlins between eyeball and brain... ;)

As we say at my job... PEBKAC. :D

Yup... PEBEAB :)

I have a question about a hypothetically different ending to this play (in bold below):

OK, so we have OBS on F4 for the trip. But now we have malicious INT on R1.

Does the INT make the third out and end the inning? Or is R1 ejected (no out) and a substitute has to run for her at 2B?

INT takes precedence. R1 out and ejected.

No he meant OBS
 

OBS is on the defense and INT is on the offense. The defense is protected from OBS if they are fielding a batted ball or attempting a tag with possession of the ball. However, if they are not in possession of the ball when they attempt the tag, they do not have that protection.