Ball contacts runner, defense shorthanded
 

How would you rule on this?

No outs, R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B. Defense is playing shorthanded (no F3), and F4 is playing behind 2B, expecting a pulled hit. B3 hits a sharp grounder towards where F3 generally would have been, striking R2 in the leg. R2 was trying to avoid the ball. F4 was nowhere near the ball, no other fielder had a chance to make any outs. All runners advance only one base.

Just out of curiosity, who was covering 1st normally, the pitcher, or did F4 normally play in the 3.5 hole and cover?


8-7-k
But I believe the intent of the rule was written as though a fielder must be there to have an opp. to make a play.

By letter of the rule, I guess one could make a strong case for an out sense the ball never passed an IFer, but going by intent, Id rule nothing.

Honestly, this didn't actually happen, but it ALMOST did in one of my games a while back. Got me thinking.

To more specifically answer your question, no one was covering 1B. They were more concerned with getting the lead runners and minimize the other team's scoring.

This is SP, right? So...why didn't they just pull one of their outfielders to play in the F3 spot?

I have nothing, the ball did not pass another infielder or another fielder who an opportunity to make an out.

ASA 8.7 THE RUNNER IS OUT

K. When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before is passes another infielder excluding the pitcher, or it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the interference.

Did the ball pass an infielderer? I know you are trying to apply common sense here. However, assuming R2 was not in contact with the base, the rules do not allow any call other than "out" on the given play.

But you can see that theres a qualifying statement in the last part of the rule "nother fielder has an opportunity to make an out". I wasnt there when the rules were written, but it doesnt take a giant leap in reasoning to believe this sentiment is also applicable in the first part of the rule "before is passes another infielder". Lets face it, the ASA rules arent the most well written document, and I dont think the rules ppl foresaw a team playing without a 1B.

That being said, technically its an out, but thats like a cop giving someone a jaywalking ticket when they walk 1' out of the crosswalk, yes they were out of the crosswalk but they were still in walking "in" the designated area.

Let's take this example to a more likely (non-shorthanded) scenario, and say F3 is shifted to where F4 normally would play, with F4 playing behind second. Would you not have an out if R1 is two steps off first when struck by a batted ball? Absolutely. The ball had not passed an infielder, made contact with a runner while not in contact with the base.

"Opportunity to make an out" is not a requirement for this part of the rule. This only comes into play IF the ball passes an infielder.

To better use your crosswalk analogy: no crosswalk was painted at the street corner, but the pedestrian crossed in the middle of the street. Still breaking the law.

ASA 8.7 THE RUNNER IS OUT

K. When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before is passes another infielder excluding the pitcher, or it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the interference.

Did the ball pass an infielderer? I know you are trying to apply common sense here. However, assuming R2 was not in contact with the base, the rules do not allow any call other than "out" on the given play.


I am not calling an out because of a DMD... "Dumb Move Defense" You show up short handed leaving position without a player and want me to call an out, I don't think so. For the rule to work you must have a player in the position. NO freebies.

If there is any dumb move, how about a runner getting hit by a ball batted by a team mate while there is no defensive presence or pressure?

For as much as we know, the team is shorthanded because one of their players was tripped with a fake tag going into 2B and could not continue .:rolleyes:

Sorry, Bubba, but you lose the protest.

The defense can play all their players on the left side of the infield/outfield if they want, and if a batted ball contacts a runner from 1B who is not in contact with a base, it's a dead ball and the runner is out.

Can't polish that turd any other way.

Drunk team involved? :D

And this is exactly how I would rule. If ASA had meant for us to call the runner safe in this sitch, they would have provided us with a clear exception to the rule. Since they didn't, we can only rule one way: out.

How silly of you to actually try to apply the rule to the situation...;)

Yes Mike please tell us what infielder the ball passed ?

I know of no code, baseball or softball, under which the runner would not be out in the OP.

Codes do differ as to the runner being in contact with the bag when hit by the ball, and as to exactly what constitutes the ball's passing of an infielder.

I think you are addressing this to the wrong person.

The rule was obviously written with the assumption that the infielders were in their normal positions with a chance to make an out on a ground ball. The rule book can't provide exceptions for every abnormal situation, so I think that common sense should be used. The defensive team was obviously willing to let a ground ball hit to the right side go through to the outfield. As long as R2 did not intentionally contact the ball, I have no call unless F9 or another fielder had a chance to make an out. Sorry DC, I'm not giving you an out when you had no chance to make one.

Another lost protest.

Why not just let the runner kick the ball? After all, if intent is no longer the criteria and you insist that a possible immediate play must be available for INT, then there can be no penalty, right? And as a follow up to that, I guess possible subsequent play on this or any other runners is irrelevant, right?

Or you can just call the rules as directed by the book and avoid all the other BS.

agree with irish
 

why help out the offense or punish the defense....the runner needs to avoid contact with the ball...didnt meet the requirements of passing an infielder...deadball...out:eek:

The defense could position everybody except F1 and F2 along the right field line. If the batted ball hits the runner from 2B on his way to 3B, he's out.

Sounds like deja-vu all over again.

What is the intent of the rule ?

Did the batter / runner interfere with a player having a chance at an out ?

Which player had a chance for an out ?

What is the intent of the rule ?

To direct umpires as to how to call the play when a runner is hit by a fair batted ball.

Did the batter / runner interfere with a player having a chance at an out ?

No. But that's irrelevant unless the ball has already passed an infielder.

Which player had a chance for an out ?

None. But again it's irrelevant.

Think of it this way: on an uncaught third strike, the batter is out if 1B is occupied with less than 2 out. The intent of the rule is to keep F2 from "dropping" strike 3 and getting an easy double play. However, if the runner from 1B is stealing on the pitch, and strike 3 gets past F2 all the way to the backstop, F2 would have no chance at a double play and probably no chance to put either the runner or the batter out. But the batter is still out, even if the uncaught third strike bounces off F2 and goes into the dugout, because that's what the rule says.

This is not some ASA peculiarity. Every code I know of has the same rule, except that the codes differ a bit in what constitutes "passing an infielder."

But this is not a case in which we ask ourselves either of those last two questions. This is a rule that is spelled out clearly for us as written, so we call the play as directed by the rule.

(I like getting an out without having to think too hard about it. :p)

[QUOTE=SethPDX;619591]But this is not a case in which we ask ourselves either of those last two questions. This is a rule that is spelled out clearly for us as written, so we call the play as directed by the rule.


SethPDX

You do need to address these questions...

You need to look at R/S 44 section B....

While Not in Contact With a Base. A runner who is hit by a fair batted ball while not in contact with a base should be call out or ruled safe, depending on the interference rule.

(Rule 8, section 7 J & K or rule 8, section 8 D-F.


Again I ask who did the batter / Runner interfere with if there was not a player / players there to field the ball ?

SethPDX more than adequately answered the issue. I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I'll ask if you went back and read those rules? Nowhere does it say that a runner can be safe if they're hit by a fair batted ball that hasn't yet passed an infielder (excluding the pitcher, of course).