INT on a DP?
 

this situation happened the other night.

ASA slowpitch
1 out runner on 1st

groundball to 3B, throws to 2nd, gets the force out, its gonna be a close play at 1st bc the 2B isnt good and theres a fast runner. The 2B then does a little crow hop type move directly towards 1B (moving about 5' down the basepath), in the mean time, the runner, who already had been retired, continues running (about 2-3 steps after the force at 2nd) and bumps shoulders with the 2B. At the time of the shoulder bump, the 2B had his arm cocked, ready to throw, the bump knocked him off balance, and by the time he regrouped his balance, the runner was basically at 1B, so the 2B held his throw.

Whats the call if any?

Did F4 have any shot whatsoever at retiring the BR (benefit of the doubt goes towards the defense on this)? If so, then I believe I would have INT on the play (ASA 8-7-P). The runner closest to home is out (which would be the BR).

If the bump hadn't occurred and F4 had no shot whatsoever (ie., the BR is standing on the base at the time of the bump), I'd have nothing.

The key to remember is that R1 can't simply go "poof" and disappear off the field. They have to "commit an act" that hinders the defense. I would judge this "bump" to be an act of hindering the defense, so long as the defense had a remote shot at getting an out on the BR.

Thanks for the help,

It was going to be a close play at 1st if the fielder threw the ball cleanly.

I was playing in the game, the BU said that the fielder had to actually throw the ball for there to be INT, and I believe he said he would have called INT if the 2B had thrown it.

Does it matter how long after the runner was retired when the shoulder bump occured? Edit, just realized that this would basically be a judgement of the runner "committing the act" Here the runner took a few more steps after being retired and made 0 effort to slide/duck/move towards RF.

do rules 8 7 Q or 8 7 J 3 have any effect on this play since the runner has already been retired, or do those rules only apply to "live" runners?

Well, it's umpire's judgment if the defense had a chance to get the out. Again, the benefit of the doubt goes towards the defense, not the offense. If the umpire felt that the BR would have easily beaten a rocket of a throw that's on target and cleanly caught, then there's no INT.

There are some umpires who believe this, but I think that's horsesh1t. They do not have to attempt the throw in order for there to be INT. That usually indicates to me that the umpire has a tough time pulling the trigger.

There's no real "hard and fast rule" when it comes to how long after they're been retired it has to be in order for it to be INT. The general rule of thumb is whether or not the runner is doing what they're supposed to be doing at the time of the potential INT call. For example, if the runner slides hard into the base a split second after they're out, causing the fielder's throw to be off-target, it's nothing. If it's WELL after the play and the runner had a million years to get out of the way, it's could be INT.

The umpire has final judgment as to whether or not it was an act of INT.

No, both of those rules pertain to a runner who has not yet been put out. If the "bump" you mentioned was flagrant (ie., clearly meant to harm someone or to start a fight), then the player would be ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Based solely on what you have posted, IMO, this is nothing especially with the fielder stepping into the path of the runner.

Back to an old faithful, we cannot expect a retired runner to just go "poof" the second they are put out. The runner attempting to reach 2B is not in itself an act of interference.

This is a DMF since the fielder should know where the runner should be at the time and made a clear decision to attempt to use the same space as the runner.

Of course, as with anything involving this type of judgment, we would have to see it for a definitive decision.

What about the BU's explanation (also supported by the PU-I told you the ASA umps in boston are bad) that the fielder has to physically throw the ball for INT to be called?

I didnt really have a problem with the BU not calling INT bc the 2B was way out of position and it was a judgement call as too how much time the runner had to "get out of the way", although it seemed like an eternity from my point of view, but his reasoning is what got me. almost like the jeter caught stealing 3rd base play a few weeks ago play. jeter was safe due to a nifty slide, but the ump, allegedly, called him out bc the "ball beat him"

8 7 J 3, while it does not apply here, clearly says a fielder attempting to throw the ball, and 8 7 P says a retired runner interfering with a fielders opportunity to make a play (which if the runner had been retired 5s b4 the bump, he'd clearly be in violation of 8 7 p) so to me, no throw is ever required.

See Dave's explanation above:

As a side note...please don't lump all ASA umpires in an area into a category because of the two that you had. Thanks

Last time I played in a league, I once had two umpires tell me that a runner leading off in SP is an appeal play. One was a "20-year veteran." :mad:

8-7-R is one of the few rules I have memorized verbatim. Those umpires were quickly corrected that night.

The fielder actually throwing the ball shouldn't be a necessary requirement for INT, in my opinion. What if the runner jumps up in the air, facing the infielder (I've seen a nutjob do this), and the fielder holds the ball b/c his instinct is NOT to fire the ball into someone's face?

Or what if the retired runner decides to bowl over F4? Where's the throw, blue?

The kernel of truth in the "must attempt a throw" is that there must be a play for there to be interference. A fielder holding a throw because there is no shot at the out is not interference, regardless of where the runner is. The judgment comes from determining if the runner committed an act of interference (with a play).

Ive had about 15 different slow pitch ASA umps over the past 2 years, 5 of them were good, 10 were bad (1 even awarded a BR 3B on an overthrow play at 1st!!!)

Im sure that there are tons and tons of good ASA umps out there, just usually not the ones doing games I play in. maybe the good umps here do fast pitch???

Maybe you need to realize that although it's annoying, recreational league games are usually where most umps get their start.

Maybe the first word in that phrase escapes you: "recreational."

You're not going to find all rec league umps at the same level. Some call Nationals, most don't. Give me a break, it's rec league.

While it should be the goal of every umpire to be perfect the first game and to improve every game thereafter, the reality is that we're all human. We make mistakes. We're NOT perfect.

Don't expect local rec league umpires to be any different.

Retired Runner
 

I've got interference. The retired runner interfered with the defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another runner (rule 8 section 7 P).

Since the player that committed interference is already out, you can not penalize him or her for the interference.

Whether the batter-runner would have been safe or out at first is irrelevent.

The penalty for the interference is applied to the runner closest to home, which in this case is the batter-runner.

Really? If there was no realistic opportunity for an out, there was no play that was being interfered with.

Agreed. If the defense has zero chance of making a play on another runner, by rule (and by common sense), there is no INT.

I understand that SP softball will probably get the worse umpires but doesnt ASA require umps to pass a test and do a clinic to be certified??? Whats on the test???

And one league I play in, an "A" level mens league, takes itself (the league that is, not the players) way too seriously and employs 2 umps for the games when 1 is all thats necessary.

To give you another example, 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, fly ball to LC, runner on 3rd leaves really really early, runner on 2nd does not tag. The ball comes in to the infield, 3B appeals [to the PU] the runner at 3rd, the PU says its not my call, its the BU's call [which obv is not right], BU said I wasnt paying attention, safe, 3B argues to PU that not only is it his call, but regardless of whos call it actually is, did you see the runner leave early, and if so can you call him out, bc BU wasnt looking, PU says I cant overrule the BU bc it was his call. later the PU admitted he saw the runner leave early but didnt feel it was proper to overrule the BU, bc it was "his call"

basically about every other game there is a "major" misstake by the umps here that shouldnt happen, especially since the umps have to be certified. If they werent certified and we werent paying them $22/ump/team, it wouldnt be a big deal, bc you "pay for what you get"

Ha! Absolutely classical! :cool:

What? The whining? Or the absolute lack of knowledge when it comes to umpiring? :rolleyes:

Ahem... Speaking as an ASA SP-only umpire... Referring to SP umpires as being the "worst umpires" is, quite frankly, an insult (Oh, by the way... Nice grammar. It's "worst," not "worse," Bub.). I did not say SP umpires were a bunch of newbies. I said this is rec league play, and your expectations should follow accordingly.

Okay, fine, so you have umpires that screw up. Is it really the end of your world? I mean, really? C'mon. You get what, a t-shirt at the end of the year? And is one "major mistake" really going to ruin your night?

Get real, and rethink your priorities in life. You get zero sympathy from me, jack@ss.

This one's the best yet!

You complain about the umps missed this, the umps missed that, the umps are no good, and then say all you really need is one? At the A level?

That's a good one. Keep the jokes coming; I love them.

I don't think the A stands for the classification of play :rolleyes:

What happened Dave?

I'll see you in Salem, VA. Don't know if I will do any D games but will do E. Sent the contract a couple of days ago.

Bah... No worries. Just found another wolf in Fechheimers.

Have you gotten your packet yet from the UIC?

No. I just sent in the contract. Called about the ISSA World Championship in Manassas VA (my back yard kind of) and he asked me if I was available labor day for the E. Said yes so emailed the contract on Tuesday or Wednesday. They must be short of umps cause we are not suppose to go to 2 Nationals in a year. No dropping dimes on me guys.;)

I think you may be right, as I sent my contract in back around April or May. Someone must have had something come up. Wasn't me, though. I'm going! Ankle's finally healing up (gee, only been 4 months...)!

Misspellings and lack of proper punctuation aside, I would like to know how you know that the umpires make "major mistakes...about every other game." Are you expert in rules knowledge? Have you ever read a rule book, or seen one for that matter? Or, are you basing this knowledge of yours on hearsay testimony of other "experts" in the league, you know, those who will swear to you that for the purpose of rule application the hands are considered part of the bat and that the tie always goes to the runner? :rolleyes:

So was I wrong when I said that in a 2 man crew the BU has 1st and 2nd and not 3rd base???

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

please enlighten me, some of us are on here bc they dont know everything, and want to learn.

First off jack@ss, YOU need to take a grammar lesson. When I used the word worse, I was comparing SP to FP, saying SP would have worse umpires than FP. Worst would be the proper form if I was saying co-ed E has the worst umpires among mens A, seniors, and co-ed. Usually I find it best that when you try to insult someone, it works better if you actually know what you are talking about (How to Use Worse and Worst - wikiHow)

And no, there is no t shirt or trophy or any prize for winning, my only complaint is that I was under the impression that ALL ASA UMPS have to not only pass a test, but attend rule clinics, and most of the umps in my games do not have a great understanding of the rules. AND each ump gets paid $44/game when they dont seem to be worthy of such salary.

Whats the point of paying 2 umps when neither one know the rules????

Would it be smart to have 12 umps at the games when all 12 rule every situation and call exactly the same??? Obviously the last 11 would be superfluous.

I know bc I play in the games and witness all the bad calls/rulings

here is a brief example of some of the things Ive seen this year

gb to SS, who overthrows the 1B, BR is awarded 3B (only 1 ump that game), the rest of these examples all happened with 2 ump crews

umps say a physical throw is necessary to rule INT on the runner

umps think the BU is responsible for plays/runners tagging at 3B

umps not knowing what an intentional dropped ball is, by and INF <2 outs, runner on 1st...

umps not knowing that all overthrows are 2 bases from TOT (batter hit ball to LC, runner on 2nd thought it might get caught so he "tagged", ball was caught on short hop, SS cut the ball off, runner had long since rounded 1B, SS threw to 3B, but went into DBT, ump said "I cant award the BR 3B on a single to the OF" and yes he was aware that the runner was past 1B when the SS threw the ball

do I need more examples, or has my point been made?

Ok. I can do an outstanding job. Is this league near NO VA?

no, boston.

and I forgot my favorite example from last year, im playing SS, 2 outs, runners on 1st and 2nd, "slow" gb to me, the runner bumps into my backside, i stumble a little bit, pick the ball up and start jogging towards the dugout. Im assuming theres gonna be INT called on the runner, the ump says no bc I had time to field the ball and make a play after the runner ran into me.

sounds like the blue blew it.

I'm not an umpire, nor do I play one on TV :D, but even I have to chime in here. Yes, there are some SP umpires who seem to spend more time showing off their invented signals or lack of knowledge and such, but the majority of umpies in my friends' co-ed league are decent, hustle, and try to do their job well. Sure, even the good ones have bad days (as in week #1 when an umpire who I think is one of the best in our league decided to grant a courtesy foul when our league rules specifically say there is none), but he's since learned the proper local rule and has done a good job in the subsequent games he has umpired involving our team. And with 13 years observing softball (HS/NFHS and now adult SP), I can say that there I've run into more decent umpires than bad ones; it's just that everyone always seems to remember who they think did a bad job as opposed to the ones that did a good job.

And speaking as a player in an adult kickball league (we use modified ASA rules), it is frustrating when the umpire either doesn't know a rule or continues to make the same mistakes over and over, but seeing this is an adult social sports club, I have to remind my competitive self that these games are just for fun and for being active and bad calls here aren't an end-of-the-world thing. It's not always easy in the heat of the moment, though.

Disclaimer: This is a general comment and not directed toward Stat-Man or anyone else on this board or otherwise.

Why do people think the "heat of the moment", "heat of the game", etc. is an excuse for any type of poor behavior on anyone's part whether it be the player, coach or official?

And since when is the word "sorry" is a get out of jail free card? Showing remorse is one thing, but nowadays, the putz apologizing has a big, ****-eating grin while shaking your hand like he just sold you a used car at 20% over market!

"Hey, Blue, really didn't mean to fracture your skull when I hit you over the head with my Freak98-painted Ultra. But when you rung me up on that pitch that just caught the corner, I couldn't help myself. You know how it is in the heat of the moment. Sorry!"

Oh, yeah, but that would work real well for any of us, and our lawyers. Sad part is the argument in court WOULD be made that is was an event which occurred in the "heat of the game" and some moron judge and jury is going to buy into it!

We may have opposing thumbs, but sometimes I think that is where any superiority over other species ends.

Yes and no. BU has 1B and 2B for out/safe calls, but tag-up responsibilities are another matter. No, BU does not have 3B for a tag-up. Yes, the PU screwed up.

Actually, yes, you are dead wrong. This isn't tennis or volleyball where there's one official over all others. No umpire can set aside the judgment of another umpire when it's that other umpire's call. Did the PU screw up? Yes. Can he overrule another umpire? Hell no.

I'm starting to doubt that. All I'm hearing from you is b1tch, b1tch, b1tch.

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

Perhaps you should take this up with the local umpire association. Sounds like there might be a problem. I don't think you're going to find the support you want here. I certainly would not throw my partner under the bus. Judgment calls are just that, someone's personal judgment. And you can't protest how someone else interpreted what they saw. You can protest application of a specific rule or rules if there is a problem. Certainly, brom your OP, the PU blew that call on the runner leaving early. If we were perfect in our line of work, we would certainly earn a lot more than $22 per game. I think you might have an isolated problem there that needs local help.

You clearly have no clue.

http://www.doombuggies.com/external/wtf-smiley.gif

http://images.art.com/images/-/Drugs...C11755341.jpeg

If that is true, those guys were truly idiots and shouldn't be on the field as umpires. Then again, based on your postings, I doubt that is a true scenario.

Tom made the call, but we can meet, discuss and correct the situation.

http://www.boardgamecentral.com/img/...lueClassic.jpg

So, after a long and arduous discussion, we decided to correct the problem at hand. So, please accept our decision as rendered. You now have a clue, just not about softball or umpiring.

Good luck.

Oh, you're off to a great start, bub...

Guess what. If you had half a clue, you'd know that there's fast pitch, slow pitch, modified pitch and 16" slow pitch. Maybe if you knew a bit more about softball, you would have known that. As such, it should have been "worst," but I digress.

Yes, each umpire should pass the ASA test. However, that doesn't mean they will always be perfect on the field. They're human, and they will make mistakes. Sorry. Deal with it.

There are good umpires, there are bad umpires, there are great umpires, and there are terrible umpires. The great umpires typically get the assignments they want. If they don't like a particular league or level of play because the players are too mouthy, then they don't get those assignments. Who gets those assignments? The rookies. Sad, but true.

So this is an A league, huh? I think the nail was hit right on the head when someone else on this board suggested that "A" stands for something else, and you're the prime example of this alpha male behavior that's all too common in slow pitch (trust me, I've been calling SP for the last, oh, 17 years). My thought is that you fellas probably b1tched and moaned your way out of having good umpires, and you're getting what's left. I've seen it happen.

And like I said... Your attitude and behavior on here only serve to reaffirm my suspicions. Now, I've been more than accommodating with you. I've answered your questions, despite this nagging feeling in the back of my head that, frankly, I shouldn't even bother with you. If you're going to cop an attitude with me, then to hell with you. You aren't even worth the time I spent typing out this message.

I reiterate: rethink your priorities in life, fella, because you've got some issues. Frankly, $44 isn't worth it to get me to call your games.

Softball is no different from football or basketball, both of which I work in addition to softball. No other official on the field/court has the right to overrule another official's call. If an official makes a call, and another official believes he/she has information that may affect the call (possibly change it), he/she can bring it to the attention of the calling official. It is still up to the calling official whether or not the call stands or changes. There have been a few times in my sports where I've changed a call based on another official's information.

The part I highlighted in red, is the exact kind of attitude we get from coaches/managers in the sports I work and I noticed you picked up on it. I'm not praising you because it is the WRONG attitude to take. I've had coaches/managers who "assumed" my no-call was the right call and having another official call something in my area was the wrong call, when in fact my no-call would have been the result of my not seeing the infraction from the angle I had while my fellow official saw it from their angle. It happens all the time in football and basketball. It doesn't have a place in softball, because one of the two (or three or four, depending on the game, etc.) umpires will always have a call. For another umpire to come in with an opposing call on the same play would create a situation where there is TWO calls on the same play, and a pile of elephant s**t would need to be cleaned up. Yes, I've had situations where two officials made differing calls on the same play in football and basketball, but there's something that can be done in those sports to clean up the elephant s**t that can't be done in softball.

Rant off...have a good day, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

Sorry about the confusion about the "missuse" of a form of a verb, who knew grammar was such a priority on these boards. When I was writing the post in question, I used the form worse bc I was only thinking about FP and SP, 2 options. Yes you are correct that there are other types of softball besides those 2. And just for the record, YOU were there one who called me a jack@ss first. Dont dish it out if you cant take it back

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

I can't overstate this, but... This is NOT MLB. It is clearly stated in the ASA rule book that no umpire has the right to set aside the judgment of another umpire who ruled within their respective duties.

MLB obviously feels differently from ASA about this:

The last 5 words of that sentence are key.

Oh, I can certainly take it. I've been at this for a very long time, and my DGAF ("don't give a f***") factor is high when it comes to whiners like yourself.

You, on the other hand, have no clue, and it would probably be better if you either changed your piano's tune or simply left. You're doing nothing more than making yourself look worse and worse with every post you make.

If you want honest answers, that's fine. Ask us questions. Just don't p1ss and moan about the one you get when it's not the one you want.

You, sir, are no umpire, and you certainly could never hack it if you ever became one.

Now I'll piggypile on this guy. You described the play wrong, it was the DEFENSIVE coach who argued, and the BR was declared OUT. So you were WRONG at least on that point.

But you made a point, what about conferences and changing a call? Well, if you followed the baseball guys thread about this, they were astonished this play occurred. A phrase that is starting to make the rounds is "ringing the bell." I would bet the $44 I would get for umpiring one of your games this is the only instance of this occurring. BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

We umpires do get together to get the call correct, on some plays, such as possession of the ball, pulled foot on force plays, tag/no tag, missed bases, etc. If your umpires aren't doing this, that is a local organizational issue. Remember, umpiring is customer service, and it is YOUR right to purchase any officials you want. Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.

What a minute, aren't you professional and make more than $44 a game? ;)

In Boston? I'm sure there a plenty of people crawling around Boston, but no way I'm working their game for under $50 and this is per umpire with three per game. :cool:

Sorry i mispoke earlier, I dont memorize every single play that happens in MLB history (I found the video of that play after I posted the description. BUT the point of my earlier post is still pertinent. A play happen, the PU made a call, which was his call to make, and it was overturned.

Just review the last ~10 posts and youll see a number of ppl saying that umps cannot overturn another umps call. I asked if it was different in MLB than ASA, bc I know it happens in MLB, and I gave an example from a few weeks ago that showed a MLB umps having his called overturned.

Do yourself a favor and actually read what I wrote and you'll see I merely respond to whatever ppl post towards me and sometimes post a replying question. When have I ever posted something factual incorrect about the rules of softball?

Now, I don't know these fellas in Boston. I happen to like Boston. It's a fun town (LOVE going to the Hong Kong for their Scorpion Bowls or to Pizzeria Regina's for a slice of pie). However, a sudden realization just came over me, and if I'm wrong, I certainly mean no offense to their crew...

How do you KNOW these guys are certified? Anyone can buy the ASA shirt and pants. Anyone can wear ASA on their shirt or cap. That only means, well, they bought the uniform. We don't know if they are certified ASA.

Many years ago, I called a local league that played under ASA rules. Our uniforms were almost 100% ASA (not everyone forked over the dough to buy Fechheimer pants). Put our crew next to a tournament crew, and you couldn't tell the difference.

So again... How do you know they're legit ASA?

Yes, I didnt remember exactly what happened on that specific play, basically I described it backwards, but the same philosophy still applied, so whats the big deal?? Did it really detract anything from the point of the discussion, no, so why argue over a moot issue?

And Im not the commish of the league, merely a player, players dont decide who umpires the games, the commish does

Uh, right here?

BC the league basically calls up the local office and asks for 2 umpires every night, they umps get their assignments from the league office as to what fields they go to each night. Ive had some of the same umps in this 2 ump league, ump other leagues (via the ASA office). thats how i know they are legit ASA umps. The only caveat would be if the boston ASA umps dont have to be certified and attend clinics, then I take back the last 2 pages of this thread.

I agree. Great city to visit, very easy to get around and not too expensive.

It's been a while since I've been up to Fenway or see my friend that works at Copley Place or visit that barely-could-pass-for-a-high-school-pratice-field, Parsons Field, that Northeastern uses for their football games.

Take it one step further....how do we know any of the alleged incidents actually took place?

I'll piggyback onto this. This is not only true in baseball, but it will be true in football and basketball as well. Watch an NFL or college game this fall, and you'll see at times, they'll beckon someone from the back of the team (the 3 guys you see behind the defensive backfield) or the lineman opposite side into a huddle because that person may be an expert on the rule they need clarification on. My HS football crew does this all the time. We even do it in basketball when we work 3-whistle, and sometimes there's a crazy situation that needs discussing. It depends on the infraction or the situation at hand, there'll be someone on the crew who knows the rule better and is consulted before any penalty (if any) is handed down.

Please tell me when ive ever pissed and moaned about a rules question answer when "it's not the one I want"???

And just a FYI, I ump (2nd year) for a local league that doesnt use "certified" ASA umps, and by everyones (players, coaches, league directors, other umps) am the best ump in the league (>200 teams across A-B-C-D levels). Quick anecdote, I play in this league as well and the commish doesnt have players ump the same level as they play in for conflict of interest reasons, but after my team was knocked out of the 1st round of the playoffs, a few of the remaining captains requested that I do their remaining playoff games bc they thought so highly of me (compared to the other umps) (and they know of my umping bc many play in more than 1 level)

I find umping is actually really easy, except in the rare instances when I have to watch 4 things at once.

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

Two totally different things. Conferring with a rules guru is getting it right through discussion. Overturning a call is getting it screwed up by egotisically sticking their a$$ in where it doesn't belong.

Steve,

I think it is time for you to try to become an umpire. Good luck.

Hey, you know I had that happen last tourney - Daddy baller coaching moaning and groaning whole game - girl's momentum carried the ball into DB territory, I was BU. PU doesnt give an award, says it must be intentional.. so I start to mosey up there to perhaps assist... and the coach points at me face "And that call in the first inning was terrible." (banger at 1st which was out)

So the now abbreviated conversation got side tracked into how much longer he was going to be participating if he didnt stop his BS.. and I plum forgot all about his goofed up award. :cool: Boy I hate distractions..

No, no, no. This is not an umpire "overturning" someone else's call. This is an umpire who needs more information and seeks out on his own the perspective of his associate. However, no umpire should EVER seek out to change their associate's call, no matter how dead-a$$ wrong it is. To do so is overstepping your bounds, and it would only serve to throw said partner under the bus.

Oh, and furthermore... No.

When? How about when you suggested (and keep insisting) that one umpire "overrules" another? It does not exist in softball. Period. End of story. I gave you the rule reference. Go read.

Oh I've got to see this...

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot? :D

I'm soooo biting my lip on this one... :D

No, no, no. Nobody overruled him. They "offered him a veritable plethora of information that he did not previously have." He changed his own call.

I once worked a league that called itself "professional," and the pay was (only slightly) more than $44 a game.

I don't make anywhere close to that for sissy ball, er, I mean slow pitch.

Well, by now everyone reading this thread knows that was an MLB game you are talking about. As Dave said,
And Dave is right. If you had read and comprehended the thread we had about that play over on the baseball board you would know MLB has its own interpretations of OBR. You also would have noticed different umpires have differing viewpoints on changing foul to fair, and that it was the PU who changed his own call after taking the advice of his partners.
Nobody overturned anything. One umpire reminded his partner of the rule, which he should have done, and the umpire who made the original call realized what the rule was and fixed it.

Great, gold star for you! And think of the money you saved not having to certify. I guarantee you there are other umpires here who are thought of as the best in their respective leagues, so you are in good company.
Yeah, I hate when that happens. Happens at least once a game, too. :rolleyes:

Oh hell no, that wasnt happening if that could be avoided. It was 106-108 and he was getting handled pretty well on an elimination game. He wasnt going anywhere. We were gonna enjoy the rest of this game together. But I sure made him think I was gonna send him. :D

If he knew how to coach he could have just asked my partner to confer with me, but he was just a jerk blowing steam and it cost him. Guess he'd rather be a jerk than a coach advocating for his team.

First, it lends to your (lack of) credibility.

Don't players run the league? If you don't like the league, walk out? Does the commish "own" the fields? You can't talk to the commish?

Hey now, Big Slick! You watch it there, mister! ;)

Disclaimer noted, IrishMafia. :)

On a personal note, this is something I've been trying to work on personally. I realize that I can't let my on-field/court competitiveness get the best of me because I know any bad actions on my part undo in an instant all I believe in terms of sportsmanship and civility.

Can I clone you? Please?

Seriously, that's one of the best statements I've heard in a LONG time!

First off, I dont care to do anything besides slow pitch, its just a easy way to make a few extra $$ a few days a week.

Second off, dont you find the hypocrisy in a softball ump calling one brand of softball sissy ball, when the manly sport to umpire would be baseball???

If that's your reason, then you're in it for the wrong reason. :mad:

To the contrary, I see nothing wrong with wanting to make a few extra bucks during the week. I sure as hell wouldn't be behind the plate, putting up with the chatter for free. Wait... I did for the first 4 years, but that's beside the point...

If the money is his ONLY reason, then he probably will not last long. He won't improve, nor will he move up. However, if moving up is not his goal, that's his right. Improvement, on the other hand, is not optional. You either improve, or you'll drown on the field.

But I can understand where the money part comes in. Frankly, this economy sucks, and I can't fault a guy for wanting to supplement his income. That was initially my sole reason for continuing to call games after I stopped volunteering. Luckily, I later saw the light.

I wouldnt work games for free.

I do give significantly of my time to my organization, though.

Working the games itself, thats for pay.

I should say, yes, the money is nice, but his wording just sounded so wrong. Sorry if I sounded like the money is the evil of it.

:D
How did know?...

:D :D

Then give baseball a try, if you're man enough.

Oh wait, you just want the $$$. In that case, stick to softball since you think it's so easy...

How many times can you be wrong on one thread? As you have already been told, the softball universe is much larger than your world. There is slow pitch, modified pitch, 16" softball, and fastpitch. Those of us who work men's fastpitch have a joking relationship with the slow pitch only umpires (no offense, NCASAUMP).

Bah... I knew you were kidding. Believe me, I'm used to it. ;)

1st off, I made one simple mistake, when trying to decide what form of a verb to use (who really cares anyways!!!! and I bet 95% of adults dont even know the rule on when to use which, so F off) when, during the heat of the moment I only thought about FP and SP SB.

This is my last comment on this thread, already about 5 topics away from original topic.

Call slow pitch sissy ball is fine, your not going to offend me, Im not trying to be a professional umpire..... BUT how can you not see the irony of a SOFTBALL umpire making fun of a brand of softball, when BASEBALL is clearly the more manly of the sports.

I dont care what sport it is, when its being played by [grown] men, it, 9 times out of 10 will be played faster, stronger, more intensely, [insert adj here] than when its being played by women, or by guys not "good enough" to play baseball (yes im talking about guys playing modified or even fast pitch softball), thus making it harder to officiate. Obviously LL would probably be easier than NCAA SB, but Im talking about a 18+ NABA/MABL baseball league is harder to ump, than probably anything short of D I NCAA SB.

I dont know for sure, but I would wager a lot of money that the pay scale for baseball is higher than softball, and I would also wager a lot of money that the reason for such is that it is harder to ump a baseball game than it is a softball game.

The reason I work softball is you can make much more money in softball; but I've done both up to 18U American Legion baseball and a dabble in wood bats for a few games.

Per game, you make more money in a single game of little ball than softball, if you care to stand around while a pitcher scratches himself for 20 mins in between trying to pick off a runner he couldnt pick off if his life depended on it. The game is 3 hours long. I could do around 2 softball games in that time, so that pretty much evens weight it in favor of a single game of legion ball. But i can do 12 games of softball on a weekend or a double header of little ball - thus little ball went by the way side for me long ago. Baseball is my first love of sports and I still watch MLB and various other games of BB and enjoy it.

As an official, the field is larger, the game longer and more drawn out, and slower. So yes, it is much more painful to work than a nice fast paced game of softball. Little league is barely a sport though and you couldnt drag me on that field. But a good game of baseball definitely does have its challenges...

Money isnt close though, softball is much more profitable.

Promises, promises.

Gosh, really? :rolleyes:

Did you not say that you[B] do [B]umpire, though? And you get paid for it? I'm sorry, but whether or not you are actually trying, you are a professional. You are being paid to provide a service. If you don't want to be a Professional Umpire, then I suggest you quit now. From your comments in this thread, I would be surprised if you lasted any length of time anyway.