obstruction or out

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.

According to the definition and the rule, it is obstruction if the fielder "tag(s) without the ball."

The spirit of the rule is to prevent fielders from "faking out" the runner by applying a fake tag. "Without the ball" applies not to the fielder having the ball, but the tag itself.

You read it as "fielder FAKES A TAG without the ball", meaning the fielder fakes a tag but doesn't have the ball in his/her possession.

I read it as "fielder fakes a TAG WITHOUT THE BALL" meaning the tag lacks the presence of the ball to make the tag an out.

I'm not sure if there's an official interpretation on this, but if not, I'm going with the spirit of the rule here. Runner is safe at 2nd.

Well, Devil's Advocate, thank God I'm an atheist, because I don't believe in any word you say. You're completely going against the spirit of the rule: defensive players hindering runners when they DON'T have possession of the ball.

There doesn't need to be any "official interpretation" of the fake tag rule. Everyone else seems to get it. The fielder HAS the ball in their possession, but it's not an out until the runner is tagged with the ball, or with the glove that's holding the ball. It's not that hard.

Period.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, Devil's Advocate, thank God I'm an atheist, because I don't believe in any word you say. You're completely going against the spirit of the rule: defensive players hindering runners when they DON'T have possession of the ball.

There doesn't need to be any "official interpretation" of the fake tag rule. Everyone else seems to get it. The fielder HAS the ball in their possession, but it's not an out until the runner is tagged with the ball, or with the glove that's holding the ball. It's not that hard.

Period.

Yikes! Don't getcher panties all in a wad for my sake, brother. I'm just trying to have a discussion here.

The fact is that the rule is not as clear cut as you claim it to be. Read it again.

8-5-4-c

"When a fielder fakes a tag without the ball"

It is not clear from the sentence structure if "without the ball" applies to the TAG or to the FIELDER. I'm inclined to think, because of where the modifier "without the ball" is placed, it is meant to apply to the tag, not the fielder.

Another example of poor editing in the ASA manual. If it was so clear cut as you claim it to be, the rule would read:

"When a fielder, without the ball, fakes a tag"

But that's not what it says, is it? The fact is that the rule is worded poorly.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Yikes! Don't getcher panties all in a wad for my sake, brother. I'm just trying to have a discussion here.

Who told?!

Originally Posted by fiasco

The fact is that the rule is not as clear cut as you claim it to be. Read it again.

8-5-4-c

"When a fielder fakes a tag without the ball"

It is not clear from the sentence structure if "without the ball" applies to the TAG or to the FIELDER. I'm inclined to think, because of where the modifier "without the ball" is placed, it is meant to apply to the tag, not the fielder.

Another example of poor editing in the ASA manual. If it was so clear cut as you claim it to be, the rule would read:

"When a fielder, without the ball, fakes a tag"

But that's not what it says, is it? The fact is that the rule is worded poorly.

I agree that ASA does not employ the best proofreaders, and there have been issues where clarity has been... questionable.

However, again, this is not what the rule was intending to prevent. To claim otherwise is, well, ludicrous.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Who told?!



I agree that ASA does not employ the best proofreaders, and there have been issues where clarity has been... questionable.

However, again, this is not what the rule was intending to prevent. To claim otherwise is, well, ludicrous.

Talk to me. How is it ludicrous? The spirit of the rule (to me, anyway), seems to be to prevent the exact situation that the OP described. Fielder can't make a proper tag, so they fake a tag to get the out.