New one for me

SergioJ · #1 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 06:50am

Check out how the deciding run was scored (towards bottom of article):

Fredericksburg.com - HIGH SCHOOL SOFTBALL

Can't say I've ever seen/heard this before.

Serg

3afan · #2 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 07:07am

all defensive players except the catcher *must* be in fair territory at the time of the pitch ..... putting the second baseman behind the catcher is a violation

AtlUmpSteve · #3 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 08:29am

Well, sure it is; but it is a terrible call to make.

First, when asked, you don't tell a coach that it is legal, then call the illegal pitch.

Second, even if not asked, the proper way to address this is to hold up the pitcher until all players are positioned in fair territory. At worst, call the 20 second violation and a ball, but don't allow the illegal pitch.

SergioJ · #4 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 08:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Well, sure it is; but it is a terrible call to make.

First, when asked, you don't tell a coach that it is legal, then call the illegal pitch.

Second, even if not asked, the proper way to address this is to hold up the pitcher until all players are positioned in fair territory. At worst, call the 20 second violation and a ball, but don't allow the illegal pitch.

Thank you! This coach got blasted in our local softball forums for not knowing the rules. Now, how many of us have met that coach (at any level) who actually knows ALL the rules for their particular organization/association? AtlUmpSteve, isn't your proper way to address this what we officials call preventive officiating ?

wadeintothem · #5 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 09:02am

Presuming that the IP was called for illegal positioning after the umpire idiotically allowed it, that is a terrible call. In fairness though, we dont know what the IP was called for. The article is not specific, not to mention they lie.

edit
I guess the article DOES state that the ump ruled the strategy illegal..

What puzzles me is why he supposedly allowed it, then called the IP.

Smells fishy in the world of coach and press lies.

LIIRISHMAN · #6 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 09:02am

I don't like the way this blue handled the situation.Didn't the coach ask him if it was legal to play the 2nd basemen behind the catcher? Allowing a run to score in a playoff game like that is bush.

vcblue · #7 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 09:34am

No umpire side, no conclusion can be made. Maybe he said something like, "coach are you sure you want to do that"? and maybe she said, "yes", and maybe he said it again "coach are you sure you want to do that"? and maybe she said "yes" again, and maybe he said "play ball".

Know if this is the way it went I might also say, "coach, listen to the tone of my voice and realize this is a loaded question.

To many maybes, not enough info.

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

...Didn't the coach ask him if it was legal to play the 2nd basemen behind the catcher? ...

We don't know that. All we know is the coach's story as reported by the press. And, even then, he did not use the word "legal."

Lots of woulda's & coulda's here. For one, it is hard to imagine the umpire allowing this even if it was not checked ahead of time by the coach.

I agree with wade... something seems fishy here.

3afan · #9 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 09:38am

yeah there are some missing pieces to this story for sure

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3afan

yeah there are some missing pieces to this story for sure

You are correct, there is a lot of missing info. However, none are relevant to how it should have been handled.

Steve is all over this. As the umpire, you do not allow this to happen.

outathm · #11 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 10:55am

Having worked games involving this coach I am sure he asked if it was a legal position or thing to do. He usually does know the rules, but wants to get a warm fuzzy that his idea is not going to bite him later on.

This being said, no matter what the umpire has to say, this was handled the wrong way, where could the F4 been? Behind the F2 and the umpire?

This is a strange situation and most of us do not want to affect the game in the way this umpire did.

kcg NC2Ablu · #12 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by outathm

Having worked games involving this coach I am sure he asked if it was a legal position or thing to do. He usually does know the rules, but wants to get a warm fuzzy that his idea is not going to bite him later on.

This being said, no matter what the umpire has to say, this was handled the wrong way, where could the F4 been? Behind the F2 and the umpire?

This is a strange situation and most of us do not want to affect the game in the way this umpire did.

This is True but remember what that canadian coach said to me this weekend " you can do whatever you want cant you ?" so maybe I was working this game

or atleast if it was in canada and he was a highschool coach there and somehow I was there it wouldve been me

and he still would be dumped

MichaelVA2000 · #13 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

This is True but remember what that canadian coach said to me this weekend " you can do whatever you want cant you ?" so maybe I was working this game

or atleast if it was in canada and he was a highschool coach there and somehow I was there it wouldve been me

and he still would be dumped

It's my understanding from talking with the Canadian coaches this past weekend that the high schools in Canada do not have softball teams.

RKBUmp · #14 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 03:34pm

At higher levels of competition, Im not sure that we need to be babysitting the coaches and making sure they arent committing rules infractions. Rec ball, 8, 10u B games, sure. But a varsity high school game, or highly competitive club ball game, not so sure. Football officials dont stop play and keep a team from running an illegal formation. Now, if the coach did in fact ask the official and he indicated it would be ok, and then nailed him for it, that is a problem.

The case play in the FED book, 3.1.5 covers this exact play and says nothing about stopping the play before it happens. In case play, Coach moved F3 behind the catcher as backup, result is an illegal pitch, ball on batter, runners advance.

CecilOne · #15 (**permalink**) Wed May 27, 2009, 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The case play in the FED book, 3.1.5 covers this exact play and says nothing about stopping the play before it happens. In case play, Coach moved F3 behind the catcher as backup, result is an illegal pitch, ball on batter, runners advance.

(red color) Of course not, the case book is just illustrating a rule, not teaching umpires.

And it is poor game management to let this happen; and worse to say ok first.