Rookie Question
 

Rookie here, not ashamed to admit it. Glad I found this forum; I read frequently and only want to improve my skills. Which leads to my situation tonight. ASA, Men's SP, Wreck league. I'm BU.

Visitor at bat, 1 out, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B4 hits fly ball to center field, which is caught for 2nd out, R1 left 2nd early and advanced to 3rd, R2 advanced to 2nd. After my partner called time and the ball is dead, D3 says to me, Blue did he leave early? I banged R1 for 3rd out, as he did leave early.

Offensive coach then complained that a proper appeal had not been made. Admittedly, the defensive player did not state, "I want to appeal" and did not use the word appeal. Rule 8 7 F states, the runner is out "When a runner leaves a base to advance to another base before a caught fly ball has touched a fielder, providing the ball is returned to the infield and properly appealed." This requirement was met.
Effect 3 states: "(Dead Ball Appeal) Once the ball has been returned to the infield and time is called, any infielder with or without possession of the ball may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. No runner may leave a base during this period as the ball remains dead until the next pitch." I feel this requirement was met.

My partner and I discussed the call and he agreed that R1 had left early, and therefore the out remained.

I feel I made the right call, but I ask myself now, was the play "properly appealed"? There was no other play made, time had been called. There was no throw back to 2nd base, which is not required. So, on an appeal, does the player have to state, "I want to appeal"? I'm not finding in the rule book about making a "proper appeal".

After the game, the Offensive coach agreed that the call would not have affected the outcome of the game, but still insisted a proper appeal had not been made. I won't lose sleep over this, but I want to learn it and avoid similar situations. As I've learned from reading here, it's all about preventive umpiring.

You handled it properly. The ball was dead, a verbal appeal was made by an infielder. Doesn't require the words "I appeal"; it was clear to you it was an appeal, it was clear to you who and what was being appealed. You ruled on it; that's correct.

No problem with the appeal. The only problem I see is that R1 was the plate umpires responsibility, you were responsible for R2.

Welcome to the site!

I have the solution!

Quit talking to the coaches at the end of the game and you wont have these concerns.

;)

As already noted, you handled the entire situation correctly. Should you happen upon this OC again and the same issue arises, simply ask the coach to show you where in the rule book they list the acceptable verbiage for a proper appeal. It's usually right next to the rule requiring players to wear gloves ;)

You beat me to it. ;)

Speaking ASA (and that can make a difference)...

PU always has tag-ups on a runner on 3B.
BU always has tag-ups on a runner on 1B.
If there's a lone runner on 2B, that's the BU's call, and he follows the runner to 3B if he attempts to advance (unless the ball wasn't caught).
If there are multiple runners, PU has the lead runner, and BU has everyone else.

I agree with everyone else here that the appeal was proper. In this sitch, I would've called time and informed the PU that F3 (I'm assuming you're referring to the first baseman) had asked if R1 left early.

Welcome to the forum!

Everything Ed and Dave stated is absolutely correct, especially for a rookie umpire and that should be taken into consideration.

However, I am not aware of a veteran who is looking through the runner (ball and play) for the touch who would not take that call. I'm not referring to a guess or maybe, but a blatant early jump.

D3 says to me, Blue did he leave early? I banged R1 for 3rd out, as he did leave early.

As mentioned in earlier posts, the runner at second base in this situation was the PU's responsibility. Had I been the base umpire, I would have required more clarity. "Did he leave early?" does not specifiy which runner the defense is appealing.

If they clarified that they were appealing the runner leaving from 2B, the proper mechanic would be to ask the PU for his ruling.

This exact scenario happened to me recently. Both runners were safe, but my BU poached the call on the runner from 2B. Between innings, he claimed that he thought they were appealing the runner from 1B. Regardless, he wasn't clear on what the defense was appealing and decided to just jump in everywhere. It got a bit annoying when he told me he's been "doing this for L years". I figured that after that long, he should have been able to get it right.

Ted

At least you've got the terminology for this level of play correct. :D

What was he? A character from the Wizard of Id? He speaks in Roman Numerals? :D

Nah, I think he was just confused. His partner was speaking bad Spanish.

Just proves that I have been reading this site, cuz that term sure fits!

Thanks for the replies. I can see improvements to some of the details in the way I handled this (again, thinking preventive and not reactive, and making sure he was referring to R1 [as I recall he pointed to the runner in question, so it was clear, but could have been verbalized]), but most important is making the right call.

I'll review the mechanics section for ASA 2 umpire system. The first games I worked this season, my partners stressed that PU had 1st and 3rd on tag-ups and BU had 2nd. My book is at home, so I'll read that later.

We like you already!

In that case, yeah, it's clear that the infielder is properly appealing a specific runner.

According to the strict letter of ASA, your partners were wrong. The book on page 253 says...

To add a little clarification to my previous post (that I was going to provide until my boss came in and wanted to work on a project - damn work!), there is a note after my quoted section...

The caps were not done by me, they were done by ASA. We can't emphasize enough that umpires need to communicate before, during and after the game. If you pregame this kind of deviation, you shouldn't run into problems with double-calls.

ASA is a little rigid when it comes to mechanics and responsibilities. As such, deviations from said mechanics and responsibilities. However, when you have tens of thousands of registered umpires across the US that need to be trained from the ground up, a little rigidity is to be expected.

But that's a whole 'nother debate we won't get into. My only goal here is to relay what the book says.

As the new guy, he should probably go with the local mechanic (at least for now).

ASA is excessively wordy:
Plate Umpire has tag up responsibility for
1) Runner at 3B
2) Lead runner with multiple runners on

Base Umpire has tag up responsibility for
1) All others

The OP states, "After my partner called time and the ball is dead, D3 says to me, Blue did he leave early? I banged R1 for 3rd out, as he did leave early." D3 implies the first baseman made appeal. For which runner? There is no mention that the defense touched the bag or the runner. Did D3 touch 1st, 2nd or any bag? Did D3 have the ball?

I agree, but since it's a deviation, I'd pregame it. I wouldn't say, "well, lookie here, Mr. Veteran Ump, ASA says we should..." However, I would simply ask, "so, how do you want to do tag-ups?"

What's so hard about that? That was even shorter than my explanation! :)

New to softball? :rolleyes:

As noted, this was a dead ball situation, so there is no need to have the ball or to touch a base or tag the player, just ask for the appeal.

And as subsequently posted, the infielder did indicate which runner was being appealed.

Of course, I'm still trying to figure out what a D3 is ;)

None of that is required in ASA or NFHS. The appropriate rule was quoted in a post above. In LL SB and BB, the live-ball appeal is the only option. That's what you get for copying OBR :rolleyes: (but that's getting off topic ;)).

As for the OP, you did fine. Welcome to the site.

Well, I was either referring to the defensive player in position 3 (aka 1st Baseman), or I typo'd (D is next to F). You make the call!

Yeah, it should have been F3 (but like my OP stated, I'm a rookie!) ;)

My bad... I didn't realize this difference in a live-ball or dead-ball appeal. :confused: Better to learn now by this mistake than look foolish on a field..... :D

So true... So true...

Nah.. the best learning comes with screwing up on the field....

:cool:

I have to agree. I'm glad it's only wreck league, but I try to approach each and every game as if it mattered a whole lot more. After all, it's my integrity on the line.:eek:

Forget the level of ball - work on your game. They just happen to be there. I do some of my best fine tuning/tweeking of aspects of my game on lower level ball.

Every single game you work someone should be able to ask you "What are you working on?"

And you should have an immediate answer as to some aspect of your game you are consciously working on improving.

Thats my opinion anyway - I am ALWAYS working on improving something.

In fact, it is smoothness. Sometimes I over hustle and look a little less fine tuned. I was evaluated in JO ball last week by a NCAA evaluator, the same one who will be evaluating me in college ball next year, and that was my "ding".

Gotta figure out how to be coolbreeze like yall. :cool:

That is pretty much how I approach my games.

I also got dinged at my National for overhustle...
So I've been working on my inner Cool Hand Luke. :cool:

It's the only level I'm working right now, but that reminded me of a sitch last week. We were working a Co-Ed SP game, I was PU. I made 2 calls that my partner later said he would not have made, because this was like "4th of July Family Reunion" games. I disagreed, because if I'm being paid to call by a set of rules (in this case ASA), then I will call by that set of rules. Again, it's my integrity at stake, and I won't sell that out to anyone.

Thanks. This is probably the best bit of advice I've seen/heard so far. It's more for me to think about in preparation for a game, but will pay dividends throughout my career.

Yes - we must find out inner cool Hand Luke :D

My bads:

On bases on a dead ball - batted ball off the foot - too quick making the DB call - wait and see if partner makes it. My parnter was reacting to the play so I knew wouldnt call it.. still... wait. I concede I'm to quick to make the DB call on that.

On a shallow bunt I move too much following the play too close.. instead of just essentially standing on the appropriate line extended and watching it. I think thats the old catcher in me...

I was good on my timing for pitches and calls, stances, slot, game managment, etc etc though and got an overall "excellent" - I'll take that anyday!

Hey I'd like to see if I can find a way to put a word for you to come work the 18G NQ 6-26-28 if you are interested. A few of them you guys sent last year..... I can definately put your name in to our assigner. Not sure how all that works though- Send me a pm... maybe we'll working on our inner cool hand luke getting ready for that!

Part of your mental pregame preparations should be deciding something to be working on.. stance, timing, Trailing, or anything. There is ALWAYS something to work on and improve. Good luck!

ChessRef and Wadeintothem or anyone else,

Would you guys mind sharing what the evaluators mean by overhustle? How did they explain this concept?

Thanks, Ron

I cannot speak for the UIC who issued this for ChessRef. For me, it is an umpire who "races" as if they are trying to beat the runner or throw. In some cases, it places the umpire in a position which makes it difficult to adjust to a problem which could be caused by a number of things including an errant throw.

Getting to the right spot with the ability to deviate in any manner necessary to make the correct call is what I want to see from an umpire.

Essentially its hustling yourself out of position. In mine for example, I paralelled (sp) the developing bunt and defensive crash instead of maintaining on the line and as a result I did not have my "cool" - he said I looked like I was fielding the bunt (I bet I woulda got em out too). You can't be seen as running around like a chicken with your head cut off - an umpire must always be cool and in complete control. Hustle - dont over hustle. You dont need to be speedy gonzalez, you need to be smart.

If you run like Speedy Gonazalez and get 4 feet from a tag play when you should be at 8-12 feet from a tag play - you over hustled.

Another example of overhustle is if a runner starts for a base, and the umpire hauls butt to get to that base, stops, plants, ready to make the call, only to turn around and see the runner had decided to hang back on the previous base. :D

I'm sure at some point in time, we've all done that one.