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-   -   After the IP call... (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/52976-after-ip-call.html)

Dukat Mon Apr 27, 2009 08:50am

After the IP call...
 
What do you do?
  1. Explain to the coach
  2. Explain to the player
  3. Neither
  4. Both

IRISHMAFIA Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukat (Post 598031)
What do you do?
  1. Explain to the coach
  2. Explain to the player
  3. Neither
  4. Both

Depends upon level of competition and/or play, player's ability to understand, coaches ability to understand or whether all parties are aware what happened was illegal.

Dukat Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:13am

I was mostly thinking about the High School FP game.

When you call it you always get the looks and normally it is easy as the coach will come up to you and ask what was illegal and you tell him, he calls time and tells his pitcher.

I have head the pitcher look over and ask though and I just wanted to see what everyone else does.

Dakota Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:22am

In HS varsity, I would not explain anything to anyone unless asked. If the coach does not ask, my assumption is he knows what his pitcher did wrong.

In lower levels of play, I may ask the coach and F1 if they know what F1 did wrong. Many times, the coach will ask first, and after the explanation, ...

(wait for it....)

"She's been doing that all season and you're the first one to call that."

Skahtboi Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:29am

I have much the same approach as Tom, though even at the lower levels I will wait to be asked.

Dukat Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:34am

But what if it is the pitcher who looks over and asks and not the coach?

Skahtboi Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:37am

If the player asks, I will call the coach out to the circle and inform both of them at the same time.

Dakota Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukat (Post 598049)
But what if it is the pitcher who looks over and asks and not the coach?

I'd probably call TIME and answer her question, same as I would for F2 if she asked.

ronald Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:43am

Our association's procedure is to call time and ask the pitcher is she knows what she did wrong.

Andy Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 598051)
If the player asks, I will call the coach out to the circle and inform both of them at the same time.

This is how I deal with it.

Dukat Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 598051)
If the player asks, I will call the coach out to the circle and inform both of them at the same time.

I would assume since you called time you did not charge a charged conference to the DC. What if you told the coach and then he went out to tell his pitcher? Do you charge a conference then? You would have to IMHO.

Skahtboi Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukat (Post 598060)
I would assume since you called time you did not charge a charged conference to the DC. What if you told the coach and then he went out to tell his pitcher? Do you charge a conference then? You would have to IMHO.


You are correct as far as I am concerned. However, if you tell a coach and then accompany him to the circle as he tells the player, this would still fall under the domain of an official's time out. Now, if you don't go out there with him, and have no idea what instruction he may be giving apart from the IP, then you would probably have to charge him a conference. That is where preventative umpiring, i.e. walking to the circle with the coach, comes in handy!

SRW Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:18am

I'm not here to give a rules and mechanics clinic about pitching. Call it, then remain silent unless asked by either DC or F1. Explain it to them when asked. If DC talks to F1, it's a conference (unless he pulls F1... ;) )

IRISHMAFIA Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 598044)
In HS varsity, I would not explain anything to anyone unless asked. If the coach does not ask, my assumption is he knows what his pitcher did wrong.

Well, that would go back to my response. Just because a game is HS varsity does not mean play is at a higher level. I've seen some HS games that was barely higher than that of a 14U game.

It is to the umpire's benefit as much as the player to make them aware of what you have ruled illegal.

MrRabbit Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 598086)
I'm not here to give a rules and mechanics clinic about pitching. Call it, then remain silent unless asked by either DC or F1. Explain it to them when asked. If DC talks to F1, it's a conference (unless he pulls F1... ;) )

Does either the ASA or NFHS rule book address charging a conference when this happens ?

SRW Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRabbit (Post 598093)
Does either the ASA or NFHS rule book address charging a conference when this happens ?

ASA :
Rule 1 - Charged Conference
5.7[B]

Dakota Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 598097)
ASA :
Rule 1 - Charged Conference
5.7[B]

Also, ASA RS 9-C. Since the TIME OUT was called by the umpire for a discussion with the player/coach, it would be pretty OOO to charge a conference here, IMO. Once the discussion with the official is over, and the umpire is ready to resume, if the DC wants to continue discussing things with his player, THEN maybe a charged conference, but I'd still let the coach know that if he continues, I'll have to charge a conference. IOW, if this whole thing ends in a charged conference, it will be the coach who chooses to make it such, not me.

SRW Mon Apr 27, 2009 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 598101)
Also, ASA RS 9-C. Since the TIME OUT was called by the umpire for a discussion with the player/coach, it would be pretty OOO to charge a conference here, IMO. Once the discussion with the official is over, and the umpire is ready to resume, if the DC wants to continue discussing things with his player, THEN maybe a charged conference, but I'd still let the coach know that if he continues, I'll have to charge a conference. IOW, if this whole thing ends in a charged conference, it will be the coach who chooses to make it such, not me.

I'm not disagreeing. I visualize the scenario as:
BU: IP
F1: What did I do?
BU tells F1, then returns to play.
DC: Blue, what did she do?
BU tells DC.
DC: Can I talk to my F1 about this?
BU: Sure coach, but it'll cost you a conference.

At that point, I've already informed F1 and DC about the infraction. If DC wants to talk to F1, I'm charging a conference. I don't see how RS 9C gets me out of not charging it in this situation.

CecilOne Mon Apr 27, 2009 02:33pm

I will answer whoever asks (coach or player only) and then will accompany the coach to the circle if he/she goes, telling him/her that I'm avoiding a charged conference, but to talk only about the IP.

youngump Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 598131)
I will answer whoever asks (coach or player only) and then will accompany the coach to the circle if he/she goes, telling him/her that I'm avoiding a charged conference, but to talk only about the IP.

But there's no basis whatsoever for letting the coach talk to the pitcher about the illegal pitch without a charged conference.
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Dakota Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 598331)
But there's no basis whatsoever for letting the coach talk to the pitcher about the illegal pitch without a charged conference.

Is there a basis for the player talking to the umpire?

Is there a basis for the coach talking to the umpire?

Is there a basis for the player AND the coach talking to the umpire?

Don't OOO this. You're not going to have a serious outbreak of intentional IPs in order to get a free conference.

youngump Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 598333)
Is there a basis for the player talking to the umpire?

Is there a basis for the coach talking to the umpire?

Is there a basis for the player AND the coach talking to the umpire?

Don't OOO this. You're not going to have a serious outbreak of intentional IPs in order to get a free conference.

The first several things are all normal parts of the game. A coach going out to visit with a player to give advice (be it on how to pitch legally or effectively) is a conference.
Suppose a runner was about to be out on a look back rule violation and the pitcher messes it up by faking a play. Coach comes out arguing for the out. You point out that the pitcher faked a play. Coach now goes to tell the pitcher not to fake plays when the runners are dancing around the bases. Charged conference?
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Dakota Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:50am

You've not just charged an infraction against the pitcher. This whole thing started with the caveat that handling this varies with the level of play. If we are talking about a level of play where both the coach and the pitcher need my help in understanding what I called, I'm not charging a conference if they happen to speak directly to each other instead of using me as a go-between.

Once my part is done, if they do not end it too, I'd inform them we are ready to play ball, unless the coach wants a charged conference. Then, it is his choice - conference or no.

I seriously don't see why this is such a big deal. As I said, there will not be an outbreak of intentional IPs being thrown in order to get a free conference.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:55am

Read Scott's response again, it is the correct answer.

You are correct as far as I am concerned. However, if you tell a coach and then accompany him to the circle as he tells the player, this would still fall under the domain of an official's time out. Now, if you don't go out there with him, and have no idea what instruction he may be giving apart from the IP, then you would probably have to charge him a conference. That is where preventative umpiring, i.e. walking to the circle with the coach, comes in handy!


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