licking fingers

[Dakota]

Given the physics of pitching a softball, this is a stupid rule. Is there any such thing as a "spit ball" in fastpitch, even at the highest levels? The size and mass of the ball is just too great for a little saliva to have any material affect, it seems to me.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Given the physics of pitching a softball, this is a stupid rule. Is there any such thing as a "spit ball" in fastpitch, even at the highest levels? The size and mass of the ball is just too great for a little saliva to have any material affect, it seems to me.

Yeah, but what about the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup they were sucking on?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Given the physics of pitching a softball, this is a stupid rule. Is there any such thing as a "spit ball" in fastpitch, even at the highest levels? The size and mass of the ball is just too great for a little saliva to have any material affect, it seems to me.

Well, I certainly can't get into a discussion on the physics part of pitching a softball, but I can tell you there is an advantage to moistening two or three fingers on your pitching hand.

As you all know, when a ball is new, it has a certain "slippery-ness" [is that a word?] to it which is why pitchers usually like to warm up with a new ball on the sidelines in order to wear that surface off a bit and to get some "feel" on the ball. In cold weather conditions, and assuming it is not raining, I found it helped to moisten either my index/middle or middle/ring fingers to throw a pitch. The moisture provided a little sticking action for a short period which allowed for some traction to impart spin on the ball. Also, when playing in dry conditions, either on stone dust or clay/dirt mixed infields, the ball tends to get dusty, and therefore a bit slippery. Again, a bit of moisture helped.

I never was called for licking my fingers, but maybe I played before this specific rule was put in? And if it was, I think it could be pretty easy to circumvent. Lick your first two fingers and wipe your last two, making it look like you're wiping off the ones you licked. Or lick the middle/ring fingers and just apply pressure on the index/pinkie on the wipe off. Advanced pitchers who are used to applying pressure with different fingers on certain pitches would have no problem with this. I don't think umpires' eyes can be that discerning from 40 or 50 feet away.

There may be some that can "load" up a softball, but I never did it nor did I know anyone that did that. So trying to get a ball to do something by adding something to it, be it saliva, mucus, or some hair product is not practical. We wouldn't be hearing "DING!" as much as "SPLAT!" if a pitcher was loading up.

Ted

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

....I think it could be pretty easy to circumvent. Lick your first two fingers and wipe your last two, making it look like you're wiping off the ones you licked. Or lick the middle/ring fingers and just apply pressure on the index/pinkie on the wipe off. Advanced pitchers who are used to applying pressure with different fingers on certain pitches would have no problem with this. I don't think umpires' eyes can be that discerning from 40 or 50 feet away..

Exactly. All a pitcher has to do is make a reasonable show of wiping off the fingers. I did call a pitcher once who was silly enough to turn her back before licking. When I made the call, her response was "How could you see that? I had my back turned!" C'mon, kid... just pretend to wipe off and we're all good!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Well, I certainly can't get into a discussion on the physics part of pitching a softball, but I can tell you there is an advantage to moistening two or three fingers on your pitching hand.

Then why aren't games stopped immediately when it begins to rain?

As you all know, when a ball is new, it has a certain "slippery-ness"

It's a finishing coat sprayed to help the balls look pretty. I wouldn't doubt there is an additional value to protect the ball for during transportation, storage and temperature issues

to it which is why pitchers usually like to warm up with a new ball on the sidelines in order to wear that surface off a bit and to get some "feel" on the ball.

Feel for the ball I can buy especially since there is quite a variance in the stitching on today's ball. However, simply warming up with a particular ball does nothing to wear the surface unless you throw the ball into the ground. This is one place where, God forgive me for saying this, baseball has an edge. Like baseball umpires, we should take every new ball and rub it down prior to putting it into the game. It isn't difficult and barely takes 10 seconds. If you need to wet your palms or pick up an handful of dirt, do it.

In cold weather conditions, and assuming it is not raining, I found it helped to moisten either my index/middle or middle/ring fingers to throw a pitch. The moisture provided a little sticking action for a short period which allowed for some traction to impart spin on the ball. Also, when playing in dry conditions, either on stone dust or clay/dirt mixed infields, the ball tends to get dusty, and therefore a bit slippery. Again, a bit of moisture helped.

It is not an advantage to be able to grip the ball. If it were, resin and Gorilla Gold (drying agents in name only), would not be allowed.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then why aren't games stopped immediately when it begins to rain?

The same reason a drop of oil somewhere is better than a quart. Pitching a wet ball with wet fingers results in a loss of control. At that point, pitchers begin to lose their grip. And the ball gets heavier, even with someone wiping it off when it comes in from the outfield after shooting up a trail of water on the way to an outfielder.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It's a finishing coat sprayed to help the balls look pretty. I wouldn't doubt there is an additional value to protect the ball for during transportation, storage and temperature issues

Store 'em in the humidor?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Feel for the ball I can buy especially since there is quite a variance in the stitching on today's ball. However, simply warming up with a particular ball does nothing to wear the surface unless you throw the ball into the ground. This is one place where, God forgive me for saying this, baseball has an edge. Like baseball umpires, we should take every new ball and rub it down prior to putting it into the game. It isn't difficult and barely takes 10 seconds. If you need to wet your palms or pick up an handful of dirt, do it.

I don't recall many warm-up sessions when I didn't manage to throw at least a couple of pitches in the dirt or off the backstop. But even throwing 40 or 50 pitches in a warm up will knock some of the sheen off the ball.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is not an advantage to be able to grip the ball. If it were, resin and Gorilla Gold (drying agents in name only), would not be allowed.

Well, we definitely need to take different sides on this argument. Try throwing a ball, or any object, without fingers. If you can't grip something, how can you hold it, much less throw it. [Unless you're Larry Bird shooting foul shots w/ a bandaged hand against a sportswriter (Bob Ryan?)] There was the Gipper, and now the Gripless.

Ted

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

The same reason a drop of oil somewhere is better than a quart. Pitching a wet ball with wet fingers results in a loss of control. At that point, pitchers begin to lose their grip. And the ball gets heavier, even with someone wiping it off when it comes in from the outfield after shooting up a trail of water on the way to an outfielder.

This is a rule which was established way back when balls were still made of relatively raw horse & cow hide. The processing of the leather used had improved dramatically over the years and while still porous, today's balls are much more resiliant than those of the past.

Store 'em in the humidor?

It wouldn't hurt. During the processing, the hide is processed with whatever dyes/pretreatment (liquid form) being used for that piece, removed from the vat/drum, partially dried, staked (stretched) and dried in an oven-like chamber.

One of the first things my father would do when we came home with a new pair of shoes was to take them to the kitchen and put them under a running faucet. With all the treatments and applications applied to leather today, other than being left in a puddle of water, moisture should have minimal affect, including absorption, on the balls today. IOW, trying to weight a portion of the ball through moisture, you may need a garden hose.

I don't recall many warm-up sessions when I didn't manage to throw at least a couple of pitches in the dirt or off the backstop. But even throwing 40 or 50 pitches in a warm up will knock some of the sheen off the ball.

That still doesn't insure the coating will be removed equally. It is easier and more consistant to just rub the ball down.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is not an advantage to be able to grip the ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by argodad

Do you think it is an advantage for a player to be able to get a good grip on the ball?

[wadeintothem]

I feel like I've seen odd movement in damp games. That makes me think that if the pitchers knew how to use it, they could. I doubt most do know how to do that. I think many male FP pitchers can, but since they are much more creative than that.. dont need it.

I dont know, I'm on the fence on the issue. Its not a big deal. In 97% of the JO tournaments I work, enforcing this involves sending the catcher out to tell her to wipe her fingers. The other 3% of the time I guess I deal with it, but its usually a non issue. In mens FP for the normal tournaments I get myself in enough trouble without opening this can of worms. Add it to the list of illegal stuff they do in men's FP.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Do you think it is an advantage for a player to be able to get a good grip on the ball?

Well I have a couple of questions?

1) Pitching clinics for girls aged 10 to 14 years old will quickly introduce the concept of:
a) the grip
b) identifying the batter's weaknesses
c) the physics of pitching a softball
d) how to leap without being noticed

2) It is an advantage for a player to be able to get a grip on:
a) the ball
b) the bat
c) OOO umpires
d) all of the above

Ted

[Crabby_Bob]

A softball is less dense than a baseball thus, is more susceptible to aerodynamic forces. From a doctoring viewpoint, the object is not to add a great mass of goop to the ball, but to alter the boundary layer of air flowing over the ball, in particular by changing the smoothness over a region. A gross example of this can be seen in the curveball trainers found in sporting goods stores. Much less dense than a baseball (same size though) and it has a series of grooves over half the surface.