Federation play
 

Federation rules

One of our umpires had a play in a scrimmage yesterday. Our commissioner gave us the ruling and stated it came from the National Office. I am going to call him back and make sure of what he said before I give you his/their answer. In the meantime, you can give your thoughts.


Bases loaded, 1 ball, 2 strikes. 2 outs. Next pitch is a strike that the catcher misses. The batter backs away from home plate, the runner from 3rd runs home and is safe on play at the plate. Pitcher covered. Umpire lets the dust settle, calls time, cleans the plate, looks up and sees the batter back to the side and rear of home plate.

What are you going to do?

First, I'm not going to have called time. ;-) If I messed that up I'm going to hope that the catcher happened to get the force out while trying to make that messed up tag and fix the safe call.
If that fails, I'm going to invoke my authority to fix the defense being put in jeopardy by mistake and I'm going to call the batter out for abandoning his attempt to get to first base and nullify the run.
I could see a strong case for having this be an inadvertent call of time resulting in the runner being safe at first, but if the batter wasn't advancing I think I'd go for I put the defense in jeopardy.

[Oh, and I don't think the ruleset matters... but if after the play at the plate they gunned down the runner from 2nd coming into third, then I'd score the run in ASA.]
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And what would your reasoning be for scoring the run in ASA?

Bases loaded, 2 outs, dropped third strike; every base is a force out.

You should have quit while you were ahead.

I have not a clue how that picture in my post got there.

Sticking to Fed...

The rule specifically says "rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy." (10-2-3-m)

What umpire decision was reversed? Calling TIME is not a decision in this context. The case book gives these examples of a reversed decision:
10.2.3-D inadvertent OUT call results in player tagged out.
-F, -G, -H "Ball 4" call reversed with checked swing appeal.

In the OP's case, there is no call that was reversed. Only an untimely TIME.

Besides, I would even argue that the defense was NOT put in jeopardy here. Apparently, the defense had no intention of attempting to put the BR (not batter) out.

So are you leaning toward the inadvertent time BR safe at first call or the abandonment argument? Or just something I missed?
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Ummm, yeah, duh. What I meant to say in the parenthetical was a non-force out. Change it to runner tagged after oversliding third.
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condos Pattaya

Not sure that I would have called a time out to clean the plate without first calling the batter out for abandonment.

However the OP, time was called, therefore,

Under Rule 5-2-2-b, a runner may not advance when the ball becomes dead.

Once I noticed the batter still at home plate I would bring the ball live when the pitcher has the ball within the 16 foot circle and I (the umpire) calls and/or signals "Play Ball" and gives a beckoning hand signal (Rule 5-1-4)

Once the ball is live I will call the batter out.

Can we...
 

Can we not get in the slot, put the ball back in play, hold up the pitcher from pitching and then in a loud voice say "Batter, that was a dropped third strike" and then just stand there staring at the batter-runner and wait for someone to do something? I would yell it loud enough so that everyone can hear, including my partner and the pitcher, since she probably has the ball at this time.

Not sure that I would call the BR out for "abandonment"....in this play.

No, actually I did not propose a solution; only pointed out that, in my view, 10-2-3-m is not it.

Actually, what MGKBLUE says is correct. Rule 8-2-4 plus Case Play 8.1.1-A, Ruling (2).

But these don't apply
 

The BR never entered dead ball territory so 8-2-4 doesn't apply. Case Play 8.1.1-A part 1 also doesn't apply for the same reason, she didn't enter dead ball territory. Part 2 doesn't seem a likely solution either. The umpire called strike three. Are you going to let the pitcher throw another pitch to this batter? The BR was still standing there probably because she either forgot the pitch count or didn't realize a strike was called. She apparently thinks she is still at bat. In fact in every scenario in this case play the batter thinks she is out and forgets she can run to first and then realizes it latter or is trying to fake out the defense. In the OP it appears the batter is just clueless.

Elsewhere, some would suggest getting that player a mask and indicator.:D

Ruling 2 does not require the BR to enter DBT. All it says if the is taking TOO long to advance (until "the time of the next pitch"), she can be declared out for failure to advance. How much time do you suggest she be given?

I agree the rule itself says "fails to advance to first base and enters the team area", but the case play says if she just plain never advances, she is out. She does not need to start to advance to become a BR. She is a BR by virtue of the D3K. She just does not advance.

Probably nothing until one team or the other reacts (except shoot myself for calling time).
However, I agree with Tom on the case play item #2 meaning until it is time for the next pitch, even if another batter has not appeared.

In the OP, it seems the batter thought it was a steal of HP and did not register that it was strike 3, DMB. :rolleyes:

As quoted it does...
 

The phrase "The batter-runner fails to advance to first base and enters the team area" applies to everything that follows. The case play does not say if she doesn't advance she is out. She did advance but after a delay. The case play is giving us a time frame for which she can advance. If she is still walking to the dugout when the first pitch is thrown to the next batter then you call her out. She can't advance at that time. If the infielders have left the field of play before she advances, it is too late as well. In this situation she obviously thinks her at bat isn't over. She hasn't entered the team area. The next batter hasn't stepped into the batter's box, so there is no next pitch to consider. The infielders haven't left the field yet. At least the OP didn't mention that they did. So, the case play is not on point.

I'm just taking the case play at face value. Did she or did she not reach the base before the time of the next pitch? She did not.

Whether or not she is aware she is a BR is not the issue. She has coaches right? What were they doing during the play at home? Everyone was apparently clueless, including (unfortunately) the umpire (since he called TIME). The case play gives a ruling here, and rather than continue the comedy, I say take it. BR out, no run scores.

First of all the batter has 10 seconds to get into the batters box. So, that time will expire before the time the pitcher has to pitch will. The on deck batter may not know she is due up anyway since the BR is clueless. So who are you going to put in the batter's box? The BR or the on deck batter? You just called strike three on the BR. It was a dropped third strike but she didn't run. You can't get her out on rule 8-2 because none of the scenarios apply yet. You can't get to the next pitch until you have a batter in the box. So, again which batter are you going to call up to bat? If you put the BR in the box and then tell the pitcher to pitch, you can then call her out. But then explain to the coach why you let a batter who already had three strikes on her in the box. You can't call the On deck batter up to bat unless you do something with the BR. You can't call her out because she has not been put out.

I still say put the ball in play, hold up the pitcher, and tell everyone that I have a dropped third strike and watch what happens.

Is there any rule that specifically says that a runner who fails to advance to a base is out? I don't have my rule book handy. I don't mean a rule that we interpret that way. But a clear rule that says failure to advance is an out.

The case play doesn't say there was a next pitch. It just gives us the time frame in which the BR can advance to first base. In the OP none of this applies. There was no next pitch. The BR did not enter the team area. The infielders did not leave the field of play. How are you going to get the next pitch in the OP?

It's what was said by MGKBLUE. F1 has the ball in the circle. Signal the ball live. BR does not advance. Rule BR out. If you want to wait a few to see what the BR does, fine. But I wouldn't wait too long. As I said, both teams have coaches.

In ASA, there is no support for doing much of anything except signaling the ball live, and waiting it out.

What ASA rule reference do you have to support that statment? Not saying I disagree or that your are wrong. I'd just like to read them myself. As far as NFHS, I'm still having a problem with your interpretation. You can't get to the next pitch until you have a batter in the box. So who are you going to put in the batters box?

We had strike 3 and BR chose not to advance. I can't make the ball live until I've got a batter ready and the pitcher & catcher ready. So, when I can make the ball live, if this BR is not on 1B, she's out and the run is removed. If this BR is on 1B when I can make the ball live, all previous stuff stands.

I can find no ASA rule to anything EXCEPT declare the ball live and wait. It is a lack of a rule that lead to this. There is no reversed call, so ASA 10-3-C can't be used. The D3K is covered by the rules, so the "god" rule (10-1) is not applicable. The umpire just screwed up by calling TIME. So, uncall TIME and wait. I guess.

As to Fed, the case play seems to provide a workable ruling for this situation.

Based on what rule and what rule set? In Fed you can't get an out unless she fails to advance before a) the next pitch, b) she has left the field of play or C) the infielders have left the diamond. None of these have occurred in the OP.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree
 

I don't believe the case play is on point. Nothing in the case play has happened in the OP. It doesn't provide us with any solution to this problem. She hasn't left the field of play, the defense hasn't left the diamond and there has not been another pitch. So 8-2 doesn't apply. This has been a good debate. I've enjoyed it, but I can't agree with your ruling.

Edited to Add: I must amend my previous solution. I can't make the ball live until I have a batter in the box. I guess I'd call the BR back into the box, announce I have 1 ball and 3 strikes and hope someone notice the count and does something. If not then I tell the pitcher to pitch. Then if she pitches, declare the batter out and nullify the run, then explain it to the coach and possibly have to send him home early.

The technicality I'm hanging my hat on, from the case play: Doesn't exactly say there has to BE a next pitch. Only that is it time for it.

Ok, after reading all of the above... IMHO, if you actually screw up like the OP umpire did. You turn, tell the batter to go sit down as she is OUT. and wait for your well deserved @ss chewing and you never ever ever do that again.

Calling time killed the opportunity for the BR to advance to 1st and the 3rd strike was valid... So she is out and the sides change. and do not score the run.

I don't have a rule reference here, so I'm going to rule as if I was making up the rule.

As stated in the OP, the batter is still hovering around HP, not knowing that she just took a 3rd strike. After all the dust has settled, and unfortunately because time was called, and everyone is back in position, if that batter is still at HP, she will be called out for failing to advance to 1B before the time of the next pitch. There doesn't have to be a next pitch, only that everyone is sorta ready for a next pitch.

Some thoughts:

1. Although time had been called, if the defense is alert enough, or someone wakes them up [coach, parent, fan], I think they could still make a dead ball appeal at 1B where the runner never advanced. Appeal upheald, BR out, no run scores.
2. Although time had been called, if someone finally managed to whisper into the BR's earhole and she snuck on down to 1B and was standing on the base, now I'm stuck. I don't think anyone can advance during a dead ball [unless a base award]. So if the next batter comes to bat, and the struck-out batter managed to obtain 1B during a dead ball, do I call her out? Does the defense have to appeal? What do they appeal?

Ted

Say, "Oh ****" to myself. :mad: Point to the ODB and say, "next batter" and hope the girl at the plate just walks into the dugout :o

in the OP there are two outs already. ;)

Yes
 

And you can't reach the time of the next pitch unless the ball is live. You aren't going to make the ball live unitl you have a batter in the box. So you can't just wait the 20 seconds the pitcher has to pitch and then call the BR out.

Yeah, EXCEPT you now have 3 outs!

Yeah, but once she enters the dugout..........

Says who? It's as valid as calling TIME with a play still ongoing! :eek: Oh yeah? :)

OK, what's YOUR solution?

ahhhh!!! dude, i like the way you think!!

You can't just hope no one notices, because you have to take a run off the board!

So you are saying that you are going to make the ball live without a batter in the box? When a coach calls time, when do you make the ball live? I wait until the batter is in the box. One mistake doesn't justify another.

My solution is as follows....

I can't make the ball live until I have a batter in the box. I guess I'd call the BR back into the box, announce I have 1 ball and 3 strikes and hope someone notice the count and does something. If not then I tell the pitcher to pitch. Then if she pitches, declare the batter out and nullify the run, then explain it to the coach and possibly have to send him home early.

call me crazy (and i am) but I wouldnt send a coach home on this, period... I deserve whatever he/she gives me.

There is not much that you can do. You messed up. I don't see where bringing a batter into the box with a 1 and 3 count is covered by the rules too. If she isn't going to advance call her out and have the teams switch. There is no easy road out of this. As the head coach comes walking by you have two options. 1) think thin and hope he doesn't see you or 2) crawl into that hole. As he rips you for calling time, nod your head in agreement and tell him to keep it nice.

Honestly though, he needs to shoulder some blame too. He nor his batter had their head in the game. He should've been hollering at her to run from the moment it hit the ground.

How can you have the pitcher pitch to a BR? I don't see how your solution is any more rules pure than mine. You pretty much do the same thing, except I don't call the BR into the box nor have the pitcher actually pitch.

And that isn't a problem because by all rule sets of which I am aware, the batter runner just entered DBT. Yeah, I know there are some minor technicalities, but do you want something you can sell, or are you just going to stand there worrying about whether R1 was obstructed because of the hook slide? :D

I agree
 

It's not covered but neither is calling the BR out for not advancing since nothing in 8-2 is applicable. I don't believe you can make the ball live until you have a batter. I don't in any other situation when time has been called. So I can't get an out because the BR has not advanced to first before the next pitch. The pitcher can't pitch during a suspension of play. I'm not making the ball live until I have a batter. So we are in a quandary.

But the pitcher can't pitch during a suspension of play and so the 20 second count can't start. So lets assume you call play ball while the BR is out of the box (which I still don't believe is proper mechanics) and the BR gets into the box. F1 throws the next pitch. You call the BR out, which I agree with. You nullify the run. If you would allow all of this to occur then you have done exactly what I said, except you didn't call the BR back into the box.

I don't allow the pitch to be thrown. I declare "Play", wait a couple of beats (or 10) without ever getting set or maybe without even being behind F2 (so F1 is not tempted), declare "BR out for failure to advance. No runs score." Then, take the heat.

I agree the mechanics for declaring "Play" is not by the book, but I can't summon a new batter with an "active" BR, and I certainly can't summon the "active" BR into the batter's box, nor accept a pitch without a batter.

By declaring "Play", though, I at least give a couple of seconds for someone to get a clue and to start something (BR advancing, defense throwing to 1B, something...).

Here's my opinion; probably no better than anyone else's.

I don't believe any brand would want, desire, or allow the farce of making the ball live again, without a batter, to complete a play that was incomplete. The PU erred by calling time; now rule on the result of the play that was negated.

I am willing to bet the official NFHS ruling is to simply declare the out. That is consistent with the case play ruling that during live play, if two runners are standing on the same base, and the defense refuses to make a play, that you simply declare an out. There is no exact rules basis for that, either (since the remedy in the rules is that the defense must tag the trail runner); but, it is, at least in my mind consistent. It would appear that the NFHS remedy for the offense failing to advance or return when necessary to continue play is to simply declare the out.

ASA is a bit more complicated; in the live play situation, as an umpire you must simply wait and force the defense to make a play, because 1) the ball is live, 2) you cannot have a next pitch with two runners on a base, 3) the runners cannot legally leave the base without violating the lookback rule, ergo, 4) the defense must go get the out.

And, if our PU had his head in the game, that is what would happen here; time never granted, so make someone do something. No abandonment in live ball territory, but we cannot have a next pitch (or the time of a next pitch). However, the ASA 10.3-c grants an added authority, to rectify any situation where a delay in making a call puts a team in jeopardy.

In my judgment, once the PU called time, and the BR did not complete running responsibilities, the team placed in the greater jeopardy by not ruling on the live play still unresolved is the defense. It is apparent to me, at least, that once the count is announced, repeated, whatever needed to wake them up, that the defense had a greater opportunity to get the out to retire the BR than the offense had to safely advance; and it could be argued that the offense failed to advance, and that calling time is what cost the defense the opportunity to make the out.

So, in ASA, absent a specific ruling to the contrary from the NUS, I would rule under 10.3-c that the BR is out; and no run can score.

If this "semi-retired" BR - how's that for a description? - is not on 1B when I have a batter and pitcher and catcher all ready (so that the ball can be put into play), she's out. You can call it whatever you want - even a look-back violation for all I care.

You'd lose that one on protest, because the lookback rule wasn't in effect until the BR was called out for failing to advance or touched first base.
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This whole play is 3rd world, so I'm going to add a legitimate local twist - there are no protests in Pa's Fed ball.

By rule you have to wait 20 seconds before the next pitch. However, the 10 second time for the batter to get into the box will expire first, so you'll never get to the 20 seconds. And by rule you would have to get to the 20 to call the BR out for failing to advance by the time of the next pitch. So now you have strike 4 on the batter.

No one seems to have an answer that is perfect by the book. Calling an active BR into the box is no more egregious in my mind than making the ball live with the BR out of the box. You can't get a pitch without a batter. You can't call the on deck batter into the box because you still have active BR whose status has yet to be determined.

Steve's solution, although not purely by the book, probably makes the best sense. And there is a similar, although not perfectly analogous play, to back up his position. However, I like anouncing the count a couple of times and then if nothing is done, then declare the BR out. It's the umpires mistake that caused this situation. Give the teams a chance to sort it out.

What is the NFHS rule cite for not calling "play ball" before the batter enters the box? Yes, I'm being lazy.

Somewhere in the first 10 rules... :rolleyes:

Actually, I don't believe the rules are that specific. I don't think there is anything in the rules preventing the umpire from declaring "Play" with the batter out of the box.

[QUOTE=IRISHMAFIA;588127]Say, "Oh ****" to myself. :mad:
That is what the umpire said.

I talked to my association's interpreter and the ruling was as MGK blue pointed out "that you can not advance during a dead ball".

He gave us this rulling in our clinic last Thursday based on a what if scenario he presented to the rules committee in Indiannopolis 2 years ago. He was actually involved in a play that he presented as the "what if".

The scenario.

Bases loaded, 2 outs, and 2 strikes on a left-handed batter. Next pitch, the batter does something with the bat, plate umpire calls it a ball but it got by the catcher and the runner from 3rd scored. After he cleans the plate, batter gets back in box, catcher and pitcher ready and catcher asks pu for help as to whether the batter swung at the last pitch. BU rules a strike. He ruled her out and no run scored for failure to advance. When he presented to the head honchos in Indy, they agreed with his ruling. Really not official as it was in a discussion. Best I can do guys:).

After reading all the points and ideas presented, it sounds like an official ruling needs to be made.

Well, that is a pretty vague statement that generally is just not true. Runners and BRs routinely advance during a dead ball period.

And that is pretty good. As noted, lacking a definitive ruling, this is pretty much a common sense thing. In many cases, all participants are expected to be aware of general information like the count, outs and particular applications under specific game situations.

Let's look at the play again:

Bases loaded, 1 ball, 2 strikes. 2 outs. Next pitch is a strike that the catcher misses. The batter backs away from home plate, the runner from 3rd runs home and is safe on play at the plate. Pitcher covered. Umpire lets the dust settle, calls time, cleans the plate, looks up and sees the batter back to the side and rear of home plate.

First thing I thought was why wash there dust kicked up on a simple force play. :confused: I certainly hope that wasn't something overlooked by the umpire :eek:

The scenario doesn't indicate whether the third strike was swinging or called, so let's assume this is a case of the batter not knowing the count. The defense may not have known the count, but at least acted on a bad play. The umpire calls time when he has determined all play is finished which, IMO, would be a proper assumption if he scans the field and does not see any indication of an advancing runner or the defense attempting to retire another runner. Whether the umpire scans the field or not, he has killed the ball. And then the "Oh $hit" exception comes into play.

Like a fair/foul call on which an umpire is blocked out by a player/coach being someplace they are not supposed to be, the benefit of the call is going to the opponent of the team whose member caused the problem. In our case, this was the batter for either failing to know the count or just not being smart or coached well enough to know she should have run toward 1B.

That being the case, I would rule the BR out, discount the run scored and turn around and explain to the OC why s/he just had a run taken off the board. The fact that I errantly called time would allow for some humility on my part. However, at the end of the discussion, I'm going to feel comfortable with that ruling.

BTW, for those who would go the other way and place the BR on 1B, I don't believe that the BR has a right to 1B. I have always seen the U3K as a 'second-chance' situation. The player as already exhausted her alloted opportunities to put the ball into play and failed.

Just as the defense is required to earn the out they failed to achieve by not catching the pitch, IMO, the offense must be held to an equal level of responsibility in "earning" the right to negate the out caused by the batter's failure to put the ball into play by reaching 1B safely, not attaining it through award.

JMHO

food for thought...
 

The scenario.

Bases loaded, 2 outs, and 2 strikes on a left-handed batter. Next pitch, the batter does something with the bat, plate umpire calls it a ball but it got by the catcher and the runner from 3rd scored. After he cleans the plate, batter gets back in box, catcher and pitcher ready and catcher asks pu for help as to whether the batter swung at the last pitch. BU rules a strike. He ruled her out and no run scored for failure to advance. When he presented to the head honchos in Indy, they agreed with his ruling. Really not official as it was in a discussion.

Any possibility of this being ruled a timing play? My thinking is that before the appeal, a run scored. At that point in time, a ball had been called and the batter had yet to become a BR. On appeal is when she got her third strike as a result of the checked swing. So while she's standing in the batter's box, and the ball is live when she gets that news, is she entitled to run to 1B and force the defense to retire her before she gets there?


ASA: 5.5.B
No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A BR being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a BR. On an appeal play the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

NFHS: 9.1.1 Exception:
A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows:
a. by the BR before touching first base;
b. by another runner being forced out:
c. by the preceding runner who is declared out because of failing to touch one of the base;
d. when a third out is declared on an appeal play resulting in a force out (This play takes precedence if enforcing of it would negate a score.);
e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half-inning (the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage);
f. when a runner crosses home plate after a preceding runner is declared the third out.


NFHS item "d" above is interesting. If the batter does run and they tag her out or retire her at 1B, this does become an appeal resulting in a force out and would negate the run. If she walks away and goes into DB territory, and the defense does not throw to 1B for the force out, would the run count?

Ted

The idea with the batter did something with the bat was to indicate the pu did not think she made an attempt to hit the pitch. The bu did think so though. Sorry for the confusion.

Ron

No - because the out was still made by the BR before touching first base.

Well, a run scored before the batter became a BR. After the appeal of the check swing, and because it was a dropped third strike, does the defense have to then retire the BR? If they don't and everyone walks off the field, would the run not count?

BTW, I'm not being argumentative here, I have no problem with the call. I'm just looking to cross the t's and dot the i's. My thought is the defense can't rest with just the check swing appeal. They then need to retire the [now] BR.

Ted

Let me add a bit of a twist to this: if the pitch that the batter checked her swing on had bounced into DB territory, at that time, all runners would have been awarded 1 base.

Then when PU called "play" before the next pitch, the check swing is appealed to the BU, he says "swing", batter now has strike three. Awarded run scores or not? Batter entitled to run to 1B?

Ted

First of all, it was not an appeal. It was an umpire going to his partner for help on a call. Even though it is commonly called an appeal, it is not an appeal play.

Second, a BR was out for the third out before reaching 1B. No runs score.

Third, in the situation presented, why did the PU even ask his partner about the swing? :rolleyes:

First of all, excellent point.

Second, the call of strike 3 and the fact that there was a dropped third strike is what made the batter a BR. But, doesn't she still need to be retired? Of the fact that she walked away from the plate, but perhaps not into DB territory, is that sufficient action to declare her out?

Third, cuz it was the right thing to do? If he denied, it would have meant at least the 1 run that scored and who knows what might have happened on another pitch.

Ted

Once she is ruled out, no runs score. Whether she SHOULD have been ruled out was the point of discussion. But, you asked if it was a timing play. No, because the BR was out prior to reaching 1B.

(The question about why did the PU even check with the BU was not completely serious... or was it? :eek:)

That pitch, when strike 3 occurred, made her a BR. She does need to be retired - BUT - it is still the same pitch, until the next pitch. Just walking away from the plate is not, as I see it, sufficient to call her out.

In your play/this play - where the PU has cleaned the plate and all afterward, and we have a live ball, AND THEN we get F2 asking PU to check with a BU about a swing - chances are really good that my recollection is just what the PU called. Call that what you want - situational ethics or maybe short term memory issues.

In what I believe to be the spirit of the rule....I would inform the BR that they are out & inform scorekeeper & coaches that run does not count.

Switch sides - play ball!

"Situational ethics" - ooh...This is one I may personally struggle with. I try to eliminate any bias to teams/players/coaches and call the game as straight as I can. I don't do makeups if I figured I've blown a call - just try to get the next one right regardless of the situation.

I can see myself out behind SS on this play and a ball bounces in front of HP and comes up and hits the PU in the mask. So he's flinching and doesn't see the "obvious" swing by the batter who was fooled on the pitch. PU see the ball bound away call a ball and runners are advancing. I'm out there thinking "Dang, that was clearly a swing." If not asked, I certainly don't say anything to my partner [maybe after the game], and just stay in my position. But when asked becuase of F2's request, I give the strike sign.

That's when all opinions break loose.:)

Ted

Since this thread has evolved into sharing two different scenarios involving an U3K, can posters please cite the situation to which you are referring?

Thank you

I hear ya. I struggle with the same thoughts. And then I remember -
I watched an NCAA regional several years ago, with 3 umpires on the field that I knew well. In the final, in the top of the 7th with 2 outs and home team winning - and these 3 are some of the best umpires that I know - I watch a borderline inside high pitch(it was out of the strike zone), that F2 came up to grab, be balled by PU - no uncaught by F2 - B clearly went on the pitch. After sqwuaking by fans and defensive coaches, PU went to 3BU for checked swing. 3BU, and I have come to conclude correctly, judged no swing.
Over numerous adult beverages, at the hotel, the question came up about that particular checked swing. Now, PU is a short pineapple of a guy who has been to any/every school you can think of and has been recognized as a top level ump at each & every level and 3BU has done a couple of NCAA nationals - those 2 umps each have a pedigree that is above 99+% of the rest of us.
PU asked BU did she go. BU "He!! yes - but if you weren't ending the game on a called 3rd like that, neither was I." With a big smile "That was your mess, you suffer with it." all said while reaching for another adult beverage.
Players don\'t want the game to end like that, coaches do not want the game to end like that - and we umps surely do not watn the game to end like that.

The differences between this and the play we're talking about is that in the play you're talking about - it's not a game ender.

On a really semi-related note, I ended an extra inning playoff game on an illegal pitch. It was absolutely the right call to make - and the only call that wuld have been acceptable. AND I had the stones to make the right call as PU. Nobody was really happy with that ending - while not relevant, it is kinda, maybe realvant.

Mike, You're taking all the fun out of posting after several glasses of vino.:p

While I can appreciate the humor here and the point there is often an avoidance of infamy, I disagree the players or coaches don't want to end a game like this.

The pitcher WAS trying to get the batter to swing at the pitch. The catcher DID try to catch the ball. If the umpire did not verbalize ball, the catcher WOULD have attempted to make a play to retire the player to end the game. The fact that an umpire was required by NCAA to check with BU, if requested, should not be a factor in an umpire being fearful of any reprisal, degradation or criticism for simply doing what they are supposed to do.

I understand that they were probably just jerking each other around in a hospitality situation, but there are plenty of people who believe the assertion to be 100% true and acceptable to intentionally ignore a violation or a call so the came can end on a clean out or hit.