Charged defensive conferences...

[Dakota]

Excessive defensive conferences can now never invoke the penalty that the pitcher cannot return to pitch.

Rule 5-7 says:

B. Defensive Conference. There shall be only three charged conference(s) between the manager or other team representative from the dugout with any defensive player(s) in a seven inning game. For every inning beyond seven, there shall be one charged conference per inning between the manager or other team representative from the dugout with any defensive player(s).

EFFECT: The fourth and each additional, charged conference in a seven inning game, or for any charged conference in excess of one per inning in an extra inning game, shall result in the removal of the pitcher from the pitching position for the remainder of the game. The removed pitcher can play another position on defense but cannot pitch again.

ASA Rule 1 says:

CHARGED CONFERENCE: When a team representative requests a suspension of play or delays the game for the purpose of delivering a message to another team member, unless the pitcher is removed for the pitching position.

So, if the pitcher is removed as specified in Rule 5-7, it is no longer a charged conference according to Rule 1. Therefore, the EFFECT of Rule 5-7 is never enforced so the pitcher was not removed due to excess charged conferences and may return to pitch!

OK, Mr. Logic Master (Tru_in_Blu), over to you!

[NCASAUmp]

Actually, there is a subtle difference.

If the coach takes an extra defensive conference, the pitcher is automatically removed, and they can NOT return to pitch. If they do return to pitch, the pitcher is DQ'ed.

If the coach removes the pitcher on their own, the pitcher may return to pitch without penalty.

That's emphasized in RS #9.

[Dakota]

I'm aware of that, but read RS 9 closely ... taking the rules and RS 9 at their word, the rule wording in Rule 1 (and RS 9) says nothing about WHY the pitcher was removed or WHO removed the pitcher, it only says if the pitcher was removed, it is not a charged conference. Since it is not a charged conference, there was no 4th charged conference for which to invoke the penalty, hence the pitcher was merely involved in a defensive swap or ordinary substitution and may return, subject to the sub/re-entry rules.

As written, there can never be more than 3 charged defensive conferences in any game, hence, the EFFECT can never be invoked, since if you do invoke it, you have now made what was going to be the 4th charged conference not a charged conference!

Tru in blu likes logical fallacies, so I was hoping he could tell us if this was a catch 22, circular logic, a deadlock, a double bind, a paradox....

[ronald]

I believe Dakota has an unstated premise that if the coach on his fourth trip talks to the center fielder on the way back he will also say he is switching the pitcher; hence no 4th conference.

[NCASAUmp]

Yes, I predict there will be plenty of coaches who abuse the change. However, I'm still going to enforce the rule as I mentioned earlier. If the coach wants to protest, s/he may. I'm confident in my rule interpretation.

[AtlUmpSteve]

With some preventative officiating, it shouldn't make a difference.

When the coach requests "time", I am immediately stating "Coach, you do realize if I grant this time out you are required to change your pitcher, right?"