State and/or National Tournaments
 

Howdy,

I'm a relative noobie at umpiring, going into my 4th ASA year and 1st NFHS year. I followed this board for a few months now. One thing that piques my interest is the talk about various tournaments.

I come from New England, so clearly we have a shorter overall season than some parts of the country. We do have some state tournaments for various slow pitch divisions and JO levels and fewer for men's & women's fast/modified pitch.

Some of these tournaments, while in the state that I reside, are a long distance away. Some might be an hour's drive one way, some a couple of hour's drive.

I'm trying to find out about some of the logistics of doing a state tournament. Since I haven't done that yet, national is currently out of the question for me, but perhaps others are interested in knowing more. I was invited to do 2 games at a JO state tournament last year which would have meant about 3 1/2 hours driving round trip. This is when the price of gas was around $4/gal. I also had a commitment to another game the same day, and decided to honor that commitment rather than bolt for the limelight.

There are a lot of people in this forum who've done games at all levels, serve as UICs. I've seen discussions on umpire evaluations, but as far as I know, I've not been personally evaluated - at least not with any feedback pro or con.

So I'm wondering about the "how to" and other questions. I'll note a few, but maybe don't even know enough about the whole process to ask the right questions. Thanx for any inputs, and if I ask a foolish question, have a chuckle, but please still answer it.

Thanx.

• Do you get paid for games and if so, how much?
• Are games 2, 3, or 4 person umpire mechanics?
• Are there mileage reimbursements for umpires who travel long distances?
• If you're going to do a weekend tournament, are there hotel/meal allowances?
• If you are doing a national tournament and are coming from a different state, are airline fares included?
• I assume the strictest of dress codes are in place, including no "silver pants" ;) and western cut pockets mandatory so no one can see the inner lining of your pockets :eek:.
• If there are no re-imbursable expenses [other than perhaps a game fee] does that mean that only financially independent people are likely to be officiating the games [especially a higher state or national levels]?
• If you work a state or national tournament do you make money or lose money?
• What path does the rec league umpire take to get to state/national level tournaments?

I'll answer some of these - but I can't address all of them.
Yes, you do get paid - check with the tournament directors as to how much.
The vast majority will be 2-man games.
Travel money depends on the tournament director, but most do not.
Lodging is usually provided and sometimes some meal money - check with your tournament director.
Strict dress codes are not always in place, but if you are somebody who has been brought in, you'd better believe that all are going to be watching you - how you dress, how you perform and how you conduct yourself off the field.
State tournaments - you'll make money. Nationals - probably not. In both, it's due to the number of games that you'll work.
Everyone follows the same path - through your district.

I too am from the Northeast. I have been an ASA/Federation ump for the past 15 years. Actually I am the UIC of a small board of about 20 umpires. Here in my state ASA covers the high schools.

I travel up to two hours one way to call ASA State and Regional tourneys. Most are held within 45 minute drive. No mileage reimburstment. I would say I usually make a small amount of money at these tourneys. If I choose to stay over night and not travel the hotel costs are on me. I have called three Nationals as a Host Exhange so travel has been on me. Two of these I drove and one I flew to. The last National was this past summer in Virginia when gas cost were at their highest. The Nationals cost me money but I am fortunate that my finacial status allows me the luxury to spend the money.
The path I took was to work many State tourneys then Regionals to get the recognition needed to move on to Nationals.

All our games at the State and Regional level at two man until you reach the final rounds when we start working three man.

I'll give it a shot from my experience.

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  Yes, I got paid quite a bit for NFHS but ASA championships are relatively low paying if you are just looking that the game fee itself.
  
  
  Quote:

  Are games 2, 3, or 4 person umpire mechanics?

  In my experience they are normally 2 in the early rounds and some higher level tourneys move to 3 for the big games.
  
  
  Quote:

  Are there mileage reimbursements for umpires who travel long distances?

  NFHS - Yes
  ASA - sometimes - some tournaments I have gotten some mileage or travel pay but it is fairly rare.
  
  
  Quote:

  If you're going to do a weekend tournament, are there hotel/meal allowances?

  Many regular tournaments I get that. Nationals or other big tournaments - if you are not local, you will usually get that.
  
  
  Quote:

  If you are doing a national tournament and are coming from a different state, are airline fares included?

  Sometimes - there are different classifications of umpires and depending your classification your fare will be paid by your association, or you, or the host.
  
  
  Quote:

  I assume the strictest of dress codes are in place, including no "silver pants" ;) and western cut pockets mandatory so no one can see the inner lining of your pockets :eek:. If there are no re-imbursable expenses [other than perhaps a game fee] does that mean that only financially independent people are likely to be officiating the games [especially a higher state or national levels]?

  That is not my experience -no. In fact few umpires I know, least of all me, are of that classification.
  
  
  Quote:

  If you work a state or national tournament do you make money or lose money?

  State and National tournaments are not the same at all. You will usually get paid less at a ASA National than a local metro or state tourney.
  I would classify nationals a losing money deal but the experience is still awesome.
  
  NFHS - you make money and good money.
  
  
  Quote:

  What path does the rec league umpire take to get to state/national level tournaments?

You probably need to get in the travel ball association and start working Travel ball tournaments. Contact the UIC.

Essentially, your weekly tournies and leagues are your money makers. You wont make money and probably will spend much more than you do make at Nationals - but it is a blast.

Those are my answers as far as I know.

I'll give it a stab, too, from my own personal experience...

Yes, but how much you get paid will depend upon what you're calling. Varying levels equals varying pay.

All depends on the UIC of the tournament. Most tourneys will start with 2-umpire systems, some will go with 3-umpire systems.

Sometimes, but to cut down costs, I've heard that some tournaments are trying to get away from that. The more local umpires a tourney has, the less it has to reimburse for mileage. Remember, you can also deduct mileage on your taxes.

Sometimes. It depends on the level and who's doing the hosting. You'll probably get some sort of a lunch provided to you, but don't get your hopes too high. Sometimes, it's just hot dogs. Others have more lavish spreads.

Again, my understanding is that they're trying to minimize that. Don't expect to encounter that too often.

For a National, absolutely. You must absolutely dress 100% ASA. A state tourney might not be so strict, but you should still dress like it's a National. It will reflect positively upon you.

Hey, the pay may not be great, but none of us are doing this for free! Most of us also have full-time jobs.

You make some money. Not a lot, though. You'll probably make more at a State tourney, due to the fact that you probably won't have to travel as far.

My recommendation is to never "look" to get a tournament. Keep an "if it happens, it happens" attitude around your association. If you ask about it too often, it can rub people the wrong way. I'd recommend keeping an attitude of wanting to improve yourself and your association. Don't say a word about it; let your umpiring skills do all your talking for you.

Tru-

Welcome a-board (ha). I can provide you some very accurate answers to your questions and more since I am also in NH. Feel free to email or pm me and I can fill you in on anything and everything ASA in NH and throughout New England. Glad to have a fellow local umpire here.

You call that long??? :confused:

Heck, I work high schools that are that far away on a regular basis. During the playoffs, it is nothing to drive 3+ hours one way. Don't get me started on the distances to some of the colleges I umpire for! :D

I used to have a car like that... ;)

"long" is a relative term. Traveling an hour is a deal breaker to some in this area, umpires and players alike.

I have the "if it happens attitude" and it has served me well. 5th year umpiring, 2 nationals, 1 championship game at Nationals, a Sectional championship game in HS-as far as we go in our area in California, some pretty top end playoff games. :)

That's awesome, man. Last year was my 16th year, and I got invited to my first National. It only took over 15 years, but hey... I was invited. Someone eventually noticed me, and I was honored to be entrusted with that responsibility. I never looked for a tourney, never asked to call one, never even hinted at it.

As I always tell my assignor, "I call whatever you put in front of me."

I hope your association is really understanding of your not taking a state tournament.

If they chose you one it means you evaluated well and are worthy of doing one. Unless the game you were doing was of higher importance, skipping out on a state tournament is highly frowned upon and unless there are no umpires wanting to work them in the future, good luck getting another one for awhile.

If that's harsh, I apologize, I've been walked out on by umpires I've given assignments to and don't enjoy dealing with it when it happens.

And that's a bit of a catch-22. The book says to honor all commitments, regardless of convenience or monetary factors. But you run the risk of being told "screw you" if you don't skip out on a commitment so you can call their tourney.

I think most reasonable people will understand that an umpire's word is everything. If s/he says they will be there, they WILL be there. If I were running a tourney, I'd be frustrated, but I wouldn't fault the umpire who tells me he's already committed to another game or tourney.

What "book" would that be?

Didn't you read his post??? He said Catch 22.

The ASA Rule Book. It's the very first line in the Code of Ethics that we should honor all contracts. If I've committed myself to a game, that's a commitment that I will uphold.

Which is written for what? ASA Championship Play?

So, Mike, are you saying that with the exception of ASA Championship Play, you expect your umpires to bolt to the highest bidder / best game whenever they get a better offer?

That isn't what I typed, is it?

I gave my annual speech last night to the new umpires. I told them the same thing I have stated here before. I will never tell any umpire they cannot work another association's games. I have come to find out that there are folks from other sanctioning bodies who have openly told umpires that I would ban them from doing ASA if they worked any other type of softball. That is just an outright lie.

I believe the local ASA staff deserves the same loyalty and support from the umpire who takes advantage of the free and continuous training and support the umpire expects from the staff.

When tentative dates for tournaments are posted 6 months in advance, an umpire has every opportunity to set a schedule around certain dates well in advance to allow a return of the loyalty afforded them. There is an association-sponsored one-pitch that is on the same Saturday every year. I can tell you today when this tournament will take place for the next few years and there will still be an umpire shortage for that tournament.

BTW, though I am ASA, I would expect an umpire of any association to treat them the same regardless of the sanctioning body with which that association is aligned.

Of course, I can only speak for my experience in this area. What others may consider fair or right for their area is probably different.

I wasn't talking about organizational loyalty. I was talking about what the umpire does AFTER he TELLS you he is accepting a specific assignment or tournament, which was the case for the OP. If I tell the assignor that I will work his 10U rec game and then I get a call for the HS assignor to filll in for a AAA-level HS varsity game, I'll turn down the varsity game and honor the 10U commitment.

And my response was to Dave's assertion it was in the book.

Of course, it is in the book. It is probably in more than one association's book.

ASA is talking about ASA. If I'm assigning ASA championship play, I'm expecting the ASA umpire to make that a priority. I doubt quite seriously that ASA means that an umpire should forego working their game to help out the guy down the street who is fighting for the same teams and umpires that they need to hold a decent tournament.

And I doubt that USFA, AFA, NSA, PONY, U-trip, SSA, ISA, SNA, Softball Kingdom or any other softball sanctioning body really give a **** whether the competition's games are covered or not.

I would think that this "code" is more likely addressing umpires fulfilling their accepted ASA-related assignments instead of not showing or walking away because s/he doesn't like the teams, partner, location, etc.

From my original post:

I was invited to do 2 games at a JO state tournament last year which would have meant about 3 1/2 hours driving round trip. This is when the price of gas was around $4/gal. I also had a commitment to another game the same day, and decided to honor that commitment rather than bolt for the limelight.

This was a situation where the tournament was short coverage for some games a couple of days before the start of the tournament. My original game was scheduled weeks before. When I was asked about doing the tournament games, I declined because I already had committed to the other game. Now to be honest, had the tournament been in my back yard instead of hours away, and I had a chance to do 3 or 4 games, I might have asked my assignor about it. If he said that would put him in a bind, that would have been the end of the discussion. If he said, "You have a chance to do a state? Go for it. I can cover that game." I would have gone with his blessing.

Ted

I'm not very politically correct, so here goes.

If you have a commitment in ASA, NFHS or NCAA you honor that commitment. (IMHO if you are working "other" associations, bust 'em.)
If you are working rec leagues (Class B), you need to get to Class A.
Talk to your UIC if considerations like travel expenses, hotel rooms, etc., are important. Get all that stuff straightened out way in advance.


Do other associations not offer some assistance for umpires going to ASA championship play tournaments out of town? We don't make our umpires rich, but we do offer some per diem, travel and other reimbursements. We have a fairly liberal draw policy, so if you need money to go you can take it out of your earnings.

You surely aren't talking about the ASA district I live in, John. Not when you mention words like "assistance"

I'd like to be loyal and all that to just a single organization, but I don't really care for a steady diet of rec ball. And that's about all there is in my district in Pa. When Mike's counterpart calls, I see about dropping any other groups and go running. But not when the local calls - I'll work his tournaments when I have nothing better to do. Another point is that loyalty must be a 2-way street, unfortunately, it's not in PA's district 4.

We have big tournies every year where we need 80+ umpires, also they are well known and scheduled in advance. I do not blame an assigner who might move umpires to the bottom of the call list who bail on us to work in a competing org when we need umpires, but come crawling to us when suddenly they want to work for us because their org as dried up.

Pretty much human nature.

The Umpire Code of Ethics, for one (page 218, this year).

Here's a more "real world" way of doing that. This is the perspective of a local association scheduler/assignor, who also deals with the hierarchy (and wants all his local umpires to progress).

If you have scheduled local assignments first, I expect you to call me, and tell me that you have been offered tournament games. You don't TELL me you are cancleing, you ask me if I can cover you. If I can, I will; and I owe both you and the tournament UIC to make every reasonable effort to do that. If I absolutely cannot, I need to tell you as soon as possible, to allow the tournament UIC enough time to look elsewhere.

If you simply tell the UIC you cannot, he can fairly assume you turned him down, not me jerking your chain (he knows I will try). If you tell me you are canceling no matter what, then I can safely assume I cannot count on you honoring your commitments in the future.

Before I go on, I'll keep the air clear before I say what I'm about to say. I only call ASA SP. Period. No U-trip, no NSA, nothing. Just ASA. I enjoy calling ASA, and I have no intentions of calling anything else in the near future. I'm 100% loyal to my assignor. He's good to me, and I try to return the favor by showing up to my assignments early, ready to go. I honor all of my commitments to him without canceling. Well, there was that one time I was in the ER for a day, but I think after calling for him for over 8 years, he'll let that one and only time slide.

But let's get one thing straight. I never signed any contract or commitment with ASA to only do ASA games and to make ASA my #1 priority. Nothing stated, implied, or even remotely hinted at. If an umpire were to sign such a commitment to ASA or any other org, I would suggest they get their head checked. Just because I've become an ASA umpire does not mean I signed a contract with them. The only contract I've signed is with my local association, and it mentions nothing of my abilities to call other organizations.

My loyalty is my choice. A good one, I believe, but mine nonetheless.

Enjoy umpiring
 

I enjoy umpiring FP softball. I umpire American Legion, High School baseball and non conference college baseball. In the past I have officiated high school basketball and wrestling. All this being said Softball rules. Games are shorter, there are more tournaments, the game moves quicker but as an official you have the ability to be in the right place and make the right call 98% of the time.

I call NASP, ASA, Tripple Crown, High School, SWAC, and D-1 Softball. The D-1 pays the best and is the most enjoyable as you always work three man. ASA is the best organization to start out in, as they train you well. Tripple Crown is the highest paying tournament group. If you work hard, listen, have good judgment and mechanics, you get noticed an move up the ranks quickly.

In my experience for my area, Softball is the least political and have the best people to work with. Some organizations get bent if you work for others but just do what you accept and don't back out of commitments and most people will understand. Most important have fun.:):D

As an umpire that's called only local tournaments and rec league, this has been an informative thread. Thank you folks.

I still haven't read anywhere in the OP that the tourney and local games are competing softball organizations. Did I miss something or are you guys arguing for no reason?

Sometimes I wish we were able to get 80+ umpires for the McQuade's tournament. 450+ teams play a 2 1/2 day tournament every year here in Bismarck yet we don't have that many umpires working. If we did, I wouldn't be able to work 12-15 games over the weekend.

You are correct, but then again no one said they were not.

If they were within the same organization, there is a protocol in place that avoids any issues.

Championship Play always comes first. Also, you don't poach umpires which are in someone else's area. A perfect example was just afforded me this week.

There was a request from outside my state to invite a member of my staff to work a tournament elsewhere. The individual dropped me an e-mail to see if that umpire could come out and play (my words, not his). I checked our schedule and gave the option to the umpire.

The courtesy is to insure that using an umpire from outside your own local doesn't cause a problem for the UIC of the requested umpire. As much as I want the umpires in my area to advance and be seen, I'm not going to shortchange the local tournaments and place the onus on the other local umpires to do so.

Us? Argue? For no reason?

Never happens on this board. :D

Nah, quite often, someone brings up one thing on here, and we go off on tangents. We're very ADD here.

And that's ADD. Not ADA (though I'm sure some may qualify).

My original post again... My UIC received a request from another UIC seeking help for this particular tournament. It was all ASA. And I had a commitment to another league who was also another ASA group. [Up until this year, I only worked ASA. Just now branching out into NFHS.]

So I think the protocol was properly established and followed. I think if I wanted to, I could have gone to the tournament with the blessing of the guy I was scheduled with. I didn't pursue it because of distance, cost, and only having the opportunity to do 2 games.

Maybe this year, new opportunities will come up in a more planful manner and I might consider going.

Ted

Just remember: the RIGHT 2 games, despite distance and cost, may be the two games that zing you on your way. Not saying that was the case here, but be sure you don't pass up THAT opportunity...