Batters Box

[RKBUmp]

This question is more for my daughter than me, although now that she has asked I would like to know the answer also.

She is a multi role left handed batter playing junior college ball. She is small and quick, so does the typical drag bunt, slap, power slap etc. But, she also swings away for power depending on what situation she is in and where runners may be located. She tends to get alot of catcher obstruction calls because they assume she is slapping when in fact she is swinging away.

She came home from a game the other day upset about the umpire. Over the course of the game all the batters box lines had been wiped out. She stepped into bat and the catcher complained she was out of the box. She insisted she was in the box, but umpire told her that she had to get back in. We arent talking a foot out here, we are dealing wth a matter of a couple of inches.

My question is, when the lines have been wiped out, obviously the catcher had her opinion of where the box was, my daughter had her opinion and the umpire had his own opinion, does the batter have any right to request a measurement to replace the back line of the batters box? I have always been told that when the lines are gone, the umpire is to give the benefit of the doubt to the batter, unless it is completely obvious the batter is out of the box.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Seems to me you answered at least part of your own question.

By telling her she wasn't in the batter's box, the umpire was stating she was not, in his opinion, in the box, no matter what doubt she may have had. To him, that was completely obvious.

The umpire does not need to measure or remark the box at the batter's request; the batter needs to comply, or be subject to "out of the batter's box" rules. That means strikes called every 10 seconds without a pitch being thrown until she does get in the batter's box as directed (ASA 7.3-C).

You may consider it her right to have a different idea of where the batter's box line is; the fact is, what you are asking is if she has the right to both show up and defy the umpire's judgment and direction. At least, that is how I look at batters that want to tell me I have to draw them a line; and that is how they were treated in return.

I have had several batters take strike one; in 30+ years of umpiring, I've only ever had two batters stand there and take strike two, and no one has been defiant enough to not find the batter's box before strike three (although one was bailed out by her coach asking for time to tell her I wasn't playing).

[Andy]

Your daugher can certainly request a measurement, but I wouldn't hold my breath on actually getting one!

Once the lines are gone, it's the umpire's judgement on where the box is. If the umpire wants to nitpick over a couple of inches, so be it.

If there are no lines to reference, it better be pretty obvious that a batter is out of the box. Of course, I am speaking only for myself and cannot speak for any other umpires.

[CecilOne]

Remember, the OP is about NCAA.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Remember, the OP is about NCAA.

Pretty much the same outcome. NCAA 11.2.2 "If the batter fails to comply within 10 seconds, a strike is called. No pitch has to be thrown."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Remember, the OP is about NCAA.

Or is it NJCAA?

[NCASAUmp]

I don't care what level you're calling. If the lines are completely gone, they're gone. It's now umpire's judgment, and any umpire who nitpicks over an inch or two about the back line is one who is probably constantly looking for trouble.

One of the local fields is notorious for getting the boxes wrong. Instead of 3'x7', it looks more like 2.5'x5-6'. The front of the box is clearly short, as the outside corners didn't even meet the foul lines. A few years back, we had this umpire who nitpicked everything to death. One night, it was towards the end of a very tight game, and I'm the BU in A. The lines are almost gone by this point, and this batter gives a short pitch a decent knock.

"DEAD BALL!!!"

The batter had stepped out of the front of the box by maybe a couple of inches. No more than 4-6" from my perspective. The batter, naturally, goes nuts, and the team, frustrated with this guy's temper and nitpicking, feed off of this.

By rule, yes, the batter was out of the box. However, by rule, the box was wrong, and had it been right, I know for a fact that his foot would have been in the box. Not out, not on the line, but in.

Regardless, a good umpire will take steps to head this off at the pass. If the boxes are wrong, I let the teams know before the first pitch. If they're grossly wrong, I'll let them know AND wipe them out myself (making sure the field supervisor sees me doing it - maybe someday, he'll get the message). In the sitch presented, if I REALLY feel the batter isn't in the box, I'd just calmly tell them to step in. I rarely have any problems with calls for out of the box.

Nitpicking, IMHO, is NOT a survival tool.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

By rule, yes, the batter was out of the box. However, by rule, the box was wrong, and had it been right, I know for a fact that his foot would have been in the box. Not out, not on the line, but in.

No, the box is the box, don't care about the lines.

Regardless, a good umpire will take steps to head this off at the pass. If the boxes are wrong, I let the teams know before the first pitch. If they're grossly wrong, I'll let them know AND wipe them out myself (making sure the field supervisor sees me doing it - maybe someday, he'll get the message).

Why dirty your shoes? Tell the first batter that you would appreciate him wiping out the line so you will not be tempted to call him out. They will be more than happy to help you out.

In the sitch presented, if I REALLY feel the batter isn't in the box, I'd just calmly tell them to step in. I rarely have any problems with calls for out of the box.

I find this more often when a batter wants to put their toes right up against the plate. I ask them to move back and usually it is not an issue. And no, I don't measure it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I don't care what level you're calling. If the lines are completely gone, they're gone. It's now umpire's judgment, and any umpire who nitpicks over an inch or two about the back line is one who is probably constantly looking for trouble.

I learned long ago that what is "an inch or two" to a parent is often 6" to a foot in reality!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Or is it NJCAA?

Here in AZ (where RKB and I are) the JC's play under the NCAA rule book.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Andy

Here in AZ (where RKB and I are) the JC's play under the NCAA rule book.

All NJCAA does. I don't believe that was his point. I think he was being....how to put this politely??....an educated donkey like animal.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

obviously the catcher had her opinion of where the box was, my daughter had her opinion, and the only opinion that counted, the umpire, had his opinion

There ya go, thought I 'd fix it for ya.

does the batter have any right to request a measurement to replace the back line of the batters box?

No, she doesnt. I'm sure that would go over like a ton of bricks.

I have always been told that when the lines are gone, the umpire is to give the benefit of the doubt to the batter, unless it is completely obvious the batter is out of the box.

Its always an umpires judgment call, lines or no lines.

Her and her buddies are the ones who erase the lines, now they want to complain? Strange.

[DeputyUICHousto]

I will always ask a batter to "step" into the box if I feel he/she is not in the box at the start of the pitch. "There is no box!" Of course we all know that even if the lines of the box are non-existent or wiped out there is still a box. I had a situation where I was a single umpire and the very first batter of the game hits a two hopper down the 3rd base line and is thrown out at 1st on a close play. The offensive coach goes ballistic and advises his next batter to not get into the box until he returns with the TD to overturn my call. As the coach is leaving I ask the batter to get into the box. He refuses so I call "Strike 1". I ask him again to step into the box and again he refuses..."Strike 2". He then proceeded to step into the box and popout to the shortstop. When the coach returned with the TD and his team is now playing defense (another out occured) he was furious at his player...not me. Go figure!

Sorry for the rant.

It kills me to hear batter's complain that you called them out for stepping out of the box when "there is no box". And I would never ever "draw" a box.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

She insisted she was in the box, but umpire told her that she had to get back in. We arent talking a foot out here, we are dealing wth a matter of a couple of inches.

Why is she arguing with the umpire? "she insisted" tells me everything i need to know.