Props to ASA on the new DVD

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

In your dreams

Its not such a far fetched dream. This could do it for the basics, then maybe, just maybe, ASA will stop catering to the lowest common denominator and some advanced umpire mechanics can be taught and allowed. As it is, NCAA has taken the base line teachings of ASA and improved upon them dramatically.. leaving ASA behind the times. This video is for the lowest common denominator - the bare bones basics - and is definitely a good corner stone building block.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

As it is, NCAA has taken the base line teachings of ASA and improved upon them dramatically.. leaving ASA behind the times.

Im taking a screen shot of the above quote and putting it in my wallet

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Im taking a screen shot of the above quote and putting it in my wallet

Why bother? wade types that into some response at least weekly during the season...

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Im taking a screen shot of the above quote and putting it in my wallet

yep, you dont need to screen shot that one; stick around you'll see it again. I only write it because its true though and I would love to see ASA umpire training program continue to grow. The DVD is a good small step in the right direction.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

yep, you dont need to screen shot that one; stick around you'll see it again. I only write it because its true though and I would love to see ASA umpire training program continue to grow. The DVD is a good small step in the right direction.

dang.. i thought he had nothing but disdain for the NCAA and the people who officiate their games ...if i was wrong.. my bad

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

dang.. i thought he had nothing but disdain for the NCAA and the people who officiate their games ...if i was wrong.. my bad

Yeah, take wade's opinion of NCAA, ASA, CIF, etc. about as seriously as Harold Stassen and Pat Paulsen's runs for the White House.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yeah, take wade's opinion of NCAA, ASA, CIF, etc. about as seriously as Harold Stassen and Pat Paulsen's runs for the White House.

Who?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

dang.. i thought he had nothing but disdain for the NCAA and the people who officiate their games ...if i was wrong.. my bad

There are good NCAA umps and there are bad ones. NCAA out here, Pac 10, etc - does a real good job at training their umpires and has really improved that past few years. Because my employment does not permit me to work NCAA, when I work with a good NCAA official I always like to get their input and pick their brains for how NCAA is teaching it. I usually find myself in agreement with the reasoning behind NCAA's methods.

A perfect example is going out in 3 man.. for simplicity, ASA sends you out on a can of corn; they dont trust their umpires to to think so the general rule is "go out on everything" and in fact that is enforced on national evals. NCAA teaches nuance and the thinking umpire on a play like that - they dont go out on everything. Plate stances and other things are all more examples.

Irishmike represents the stubborn "we can't change" old guard and ASA will improve as that old guard fades away and gets replaced with young blood and fresh ideas and a willingness to look to other places for ways to improve. There are many who wont even look at NCAA to see what they are doing. They still believe ASA trained these NCAA umpires, so there is nothing to learn from them. Mention a NCAA method at NUS (I did)... thats good for a laugh or two.

ASA is the foundation of fast pitch umpiring - NCAA built upon it significantly. Many, for their own insecurities, refuse to see how its being done elsewhere and how those ideas might improve our own umpiring.

Their excuse when they admit flaw: well we gotta train ___{insertnumberhere} umpires wah wah, and many are stupid, so we can't teach that.

Now comes the DVD... and they could if they wanted too, go deeper into the systems.

edit ..

oh wait, let me add

wouldnt want to forget that.

[NCASAUmp]

Training is, by far, the biggest problem that every ruling organization faces. Keeping tens of thousands of umpires consistent is obviously a daunting task, further complicated by varying levels of interest on the part of each umpire. Getting everyone in lock-step is an impossible task, but one for which we should still strive.

I've not seen the DVD, but from what I'm hearing, it's a great start.

I just wish it weren't so damn expensive. They can't REALLY cost that much to make, can they, ASA? You're not fooling the techie over here.

If your goal is to get all umpires in lock-step, drop the price. You'll gain much more interest in the product, and the knowledge (and hopefully the consistency!) will spread faster.

[trojans2545]

wade, as part of the young blood movement (20 years old, sixth year ASA) i take offense that you are just willing to pass on the problems of the current guard to us. I have had enough problems convincing my UIC's that I'm the umpire that they hired, let alone trying to figure out how to get everyone in lockstep! Therefore, I will only accept your apology if you teach us how to pass our problems to the next generation behind us!

In all seriousness I cant wait to see the DVD this weekend in Bloomington. It sounds like it will be a helpful tool

Dave, as a umpire and college student, I wish ASA would drop the price on everything!... or at least give a college student discount. I have other things to buy like books!

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I just wish it weren't so damn expensive. They can't REALLY cost that much to make, can they, ASA? You're not fooling the techie over here.

If your goal is to get all umpires in lock-step, drop the price. You'll gain much more interest in the product, and the knowledge (and hopefully the consistency!) will spread faster.

I don't get the complaint about the price.
Less than the fees for 2 games in my association( for the Plate Umpire DVD and the Case Book + shipping) and fully deductible as an expense for the IRS.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

A perfect example is going out in 3 man.. for simplicity, ASA sends you out on a can of corn; they dont trust their umpires to to think so the general rule is "go out on everything" and in fact that is enforced on national evals.

That isn't true, but yes, I'm going out on a fly ball. It is called "responsibility". To be so pretentuous as to presume a fly ball will be a "can of corn", IMO, demonstrates your contempt for the nuances of the game.

Irishmike represents the stubborn "we can't change" old guard and ASA will improve as that old guard fades away and gets replaced with young blood and fresh ideas and a willingness to look to other places for ways to improve. There are many who wont even look at NCAA to see what they are doing. They still believe ASA trained these NCAA umpires, so there is nothing to learn from them. Mention a NCAA method at NUS (I did)... thats good for a laugh or two.

For someone who does what you do, you certainly talk out your *** alot. WTF do you know about me? Besides not a ****ing thing, you know even less.

Many of the people you refer to as "stubborn" or "Old Guard" routinely offer alternatives. And they will question what they believe something is right.

ASA is the foundation of fast pitch umpiring - NCAA built upon it significantly. Many, for their own insecurities, refuse to see how its being done elsewhere and how those ideas might improve our own umpiring.

Their excuse when they admit flaw: well we gotta train ___{insertnumberhere} umpires wah wah, and many are stupid, so we can't teach that.

This is true and I've had this conversation with MB, HP and a number of other initials that would burn too much space to list. But it isn't because the people are stupid. It is KISS. For a lot of the ball worked on the local fields, there is no need for high-level mechanics for low-level play.

Not all umpires aspire to move up the ranks and much of their training needs to include survival and that is what the basic mechanics provide. These umpires are in the majority of registrations in many areas. You try to hold them to national tournament standards for umpires and you will lose many who just don't want to be bothered with it. In turn, games, leagues and tournaments become extremely difficult to cover. That is not fair to the umpire or players.

Now comes the DVD... and they could if they wanted too, go deeper into the systems.

Like it or not, they still have a product to sell and expenses to recoup. The DVD was basic championship play as it was meant to be. There is already another DVD in production that will probably cover the one-umpire and three-umpire systems. There are many other options which are being studied for the future.

Thanks for playing. One day you may actually get IT and I'm not referring to the computer world.

And this is for you.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

blahblahblah more nonsense blather from irishmike

I'm not exactly sure whats gotten into you to where you follow me thread to thread and forum to forum attacking my posts, even attacking me on fan forums; but you really need get grip. You are losing it. I'm sure you've had a lot of people in your life you have been able to bully and intimidate, but you are barking up the wrong tree.

This is true and I've had this conversation with MB, HP and a number of other initials that would burn too much space to list. But it isn't because the people are stupid. It is KISS. For a lot of the ball worked on the local fields, there is no need for high-level mechanics for low-level play.

Not all umpires aspire to move up the ranks and much of their training needs to include survival and that is what the basic mechanics provide. These umpires are in the majority of registrations in many areas. You try to hold them to national tournament standards for umpires and you will lose many who just don't want to be bothered with it. In turn, games, leagues and tournaments become extremely difficult to cover. That is not fair to the umpire or players.

Hey the issues! I'm almost surprised you were able to address them without personal attack

For the record, I agree with you and agree with those considerations. But there can be a higher standard.

I believe they should separate those levels of umpires and there should be various standards. I think UIC's can and should be able to certainly handle training and evaluating more than a single standard. The problem is the lowest common denominator of mechanics becomes the highest rigid standard during the most important games... nationals.

Like it or not, they still have a product to sell and expenses to recoup. The DVD was basic championship play as it was meant to be. There is already another DVD in production that will probably cover the one-umpire and three-umpire systems. There are many other options which are being studied for the future.

Thanks for playing. One day you may actually get IT and I'm not referring to the computer world.

And this is for you.

I dont have a problem with them recouping their expenses or even making money, especially if it leads to bigger and better projects in the future. I think they did a great job. I'm not sure where you came up with that mumbo jumbo or why you addressed it at me. I said it was pricey, and it is.