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IRISHMAFIA Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:18pm

Another ASA Play
 
0 outs, R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6 who makes a play to 1B. The BR just beats the throw, but only touches the white portion of the double base.

As F3 throws to 3B in an attempt to get the late-breaking R1, B2 takes a hard left and continues to 2B.

R1 is tagged out. The defense then makes a live ball appeal that B2 missed 1B since he did not tag the colored portion of the base. The umpires consult and rule that the appeal is not applicable and B2 safe.

The defense then protests the game on the basis of the umpire crew's misinterpretation of rule 8.2.M.3

The PU refuses to accept the protest. Is this correct? If not, why?

UIC Clinic attendees - please refrain from responding for at least 24 hours.

youngump Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 577242)
0 outs, R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6 who makes a play to 1B. The BR just beats the throw, but only touches the white portion of the double base.

As F3 throws to 3B in an attempt to get the late-breaking R1, B2 takes a hard left and continues to 2B.

R1 is tagged out. The defense then makes a live ball appeal that B2 missed 1B since he did not tag the colored portion of the base. The umpires consult and rule that the appeal is not applicable and B2 safe.

The defense then protests the game on the basis of the umpire crew's misinterpretation of rule 8.2.M.3

The PU refuses to accept the protest. Is this correct? If not, why?

UIC Clinic attendees - please refrain from responding for at least 24 hours.

K, I'll take a shot. Whether a rule applies or not is not a judgment call, so accepting the protest is a no-brainer.
As for the rule, I can't see any reason it wouldn't apply. Unless I'm to read that B2 did not overrun the base. If B2 stopped on 1st base, then in my view that is a return and he's not out on appeal.
________
SexbombPerry

Big Slick Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 577242)

UIC Clinic attendees - please refrain from responding for at least 24 hours.

I'll respond . . . Mike, did you write these down?

And I like the way you used BR to refer to the Batter Runner. Why do we give the Batter Runner a number?

And I'll refrain from mentioning how inane it is to say: "R1 at second."

Hijack over, answer Mike's question, the answer is very interesting.

pollywolly60 Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:47pm

Did the PU refuse to accept the protest because it was not made before the "next play" on the runner from 2nd going to third?

Skahtboi Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:53pm

Well....according to 9.1.A.2 a protest on a playing rule interpretation cannot be accepted after the "next play," and a subsequent play had occurred. So, I would have to say that all is okay in the OP, unless, of course, there is something that I am missing!

Skahtboi Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 577260)
I'll respond . . . Mike, did you write these down?

And I like the way you used BR to refer to the Batter Runner. Why do we give the Batter Runner a number?

And I'll refrain from mentioning how inane it is to say: "R1 at second."

Hijack over, answer Mike's question, the answer is very interesting.

The BR is always referred to as the BR until the time she becomes a runner. In the course of one play, the BR will not become a R. I know of no one who describes plays in that manner, unless it is the little ball folk.

pollywolly60 Mon Feb 09, 2009 01:00pm

If a protest is made here on misinterpretation of the rule, it should be allowed. I can't see a valid reason not to allow it.

Big Slick Mon Feb 09, 2009 01:05pm

Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

youngump Mon Feb 09, 2009 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 577268)
Well....according to 9.1.A.2 a protest on a playing rule interpretation cannot be accepted after the "next play," and a subsequent play had occurred. So, I would have to say that all is okay in the OP, unless, of course, there is something that I am missing!

There wasn't a subsequent play after the appeal. There was play before the appeal. Since the protest was of the appeal I don't see how you can deny it.
________
Web shows

Skahtboi Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 577275)
Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

Wonder why they did that? :confused:

Skahtboi Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 577276)
There wasn't a subsequent play after the appeal. There was play before the appeal. Since the protest was of the appeal I don't see how you can deny it.

Ah-ha!!!

Big Slick Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 577294)
Wonder why they DO that? :confused:

Fixed it for you. See every case play listed on ASA's website. And it just isn't the ASA:
http://www.nfhs.org/web/2009/02/2009...s_interpr.aspx

And yes, region 3 people like to complain :D

IRISHMAFIA Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 577275)
Original play, and all plays this weekend, referred to the Batter Runner as B3 (in this case) or B2. This system directly lead to our group misreading one particular play.

Leave it to a Little Pineapple to not refrain as requested.

No, I did not write them down.

BR is not assigned a # as there can only be one and it is a temporary designation at that.

B2 is the proper designation as the set-up info provides.

There is no, nor should there be, B3 in the scenario.

And "R1 on 2B" is the appropriate set-up (keep your baseball on the other board :rolleyes:).

Did you not pay attention? It cannot be the alcohol since you did not drink that much.....so it must be those damn cigars you were sucking on.:D

Big Slick Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:53pm

Ok, you are right (jet lag I guess . . . and for 1- I'm way bigger than the pineapple, so I can't be "little" and 2- I am no pineapple).

Then why give a number when the batter is at bat and remove the number? Crazy convention.

I have not discussed one baseball play, so I do not know of their conventions. R1 being on first is more efficient.

(Darn, I said I was finished with the hijack)

And I did my drinking away from the country bar. Blame it on the Boone's!!!

Tru_in_Blu Mon Feb 09, 2009 03:34pm

My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

The play at first base where a BR touches only the white portion of the base is an appeal that must be made immediately. Given that the defense opted to retire another member of the offense, i.e. they made a play and retired the runner, the appeal at 1B for only touching the white portion of the double base is no longer in play.

That's my guess, but I'm not sure where that's written or otherwise spelled out in the rule book.

An added opinion, I never like the rule that says if the runner misses the base on a banger at 1B that we're suppose to call the runner safe and then wait for the defense to appeal. If F3 hears a safe call, even knowing the runner missed the base, but sees another runner advancing, it's likely that he'll need to make a play on that runner immediately rather than risk an appeal. Sure, he could yell out the runner missed the base and that could be considered an appeal, even as he's making the play on another runner. That would require some very quick thinking by a really head's up player.

Ted

NCASAUmp Mon Feb 09, 2009 06:01pm

I'm looking at the question given: was the PU's refusal to accept the protest correct? My answer: hell no. Is this PU just afraid of a silly little protest? Get it right, bub. If you blew it, you blew it, but accept the protest of a rule interpretation and get that game moving.

As for the appeal, well, this is simply a missed base appeal. BR was supposed to tag the orange bag, but did not. They missed the bag. I've got another out. :D

NCASAUmp Mon Feb 09, 2009 06:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 577340)
My take will focus on the PU not accepting the protest. Simply stated, he can't accept or deny a protest. It's his responsibility to notify the opposing manager that the game is being played under protest. So the PU was wrong in that regard,

So if a coach or manager wants to protest a judgment call, the PU is supposed to accept the protest? Don't think so, bub.

youngump Mon Feb 09, 2009 08:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 577393)
So if a coach or manager wants to protest a judgment call, the PU is supposed to accept the protest? Don't think so, bub.

Of course, if the manager doesn't buy that the denial is right, they can always protest that ruling it a judgment call was a misinterpretation of the rules. Then the UIC can come and decide whether the first issue was protestable followed by determining if the rules application was right.
________
lesbians Cam

Tru_in_Blu Mon Feb 09, 2009 08:14pm

The coach can protest balls and strikes if he likes. It's not up to the plate umpire to accept or deny. Unless the coach follows up with a written protest to the league officials within the timeframe stipulated by league bylaws, it will become moot.

Even if it is filed properly, the UIC and/or league officials will rule on it or simply throw it out if it's deemed invalid.

If a coach came to me and told me he was protesting my strike zone and I told him it wasn't a protestable issue and he said he was protesting anyway, I'd inform the other coach and get the game moving again.

Ted [sometimes referred to as "bub"]

greymule Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:08pm

Thirty-three years ago I saw a game put under protest based on the umpire. Not a play, not an interpretation, not a ruling. Just a protest of the umpire himself.

I know it sounds like something out of Sartre or Kafka, but it did happen. The catcher/manager turned around and said, "We're playing the game under protest." When the umpire responded, "For what?" the catcher said merely "You!" The ump informed the catcher that such a protest was not possible, but the catcher insisted, so the ump announced the protest, and play resumed.

I don't know how the league ruled, but I suspect the protest was not upheld. On the other hand, this was New Jersey . . .

Dholloway1962 Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule (Post 577440)
I know it sounds like something out of Sartre or Kafka, but it did happen. The catcher/manager turned around and said, "We're playing the game under protest." When the umpire responded, "For what?" the catcher said merely "You!" The ump informed the catcher that such a protest was not possible, but the catcher insisted, so the ump announced the protest, and play resumed.


If that game continued with that catcher/manager any where near the fields, then the umpire was indeed an idiot!!!!

SethPDX Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule (Post 577440)
I know it sounds like something out of Sartre . . .

So that's what he meant by, "Hell is other people.":D

IRISHMAFIA Tue Feb 10, 2009 07:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 577327)

Then why give a number when the batter is at bat and remove the number? Crazy convention.

I have not discussed one baseball play, so I do not know of their conventions. R1 being on first is more efficient.

You are discussing baseball just by indicating their method of player designation. You didn't pay attention to JJ in the OBS/INT portion, did you? :D

Quote:

And I did my drinking away from the country bar. Blame it on the Boone's!!!
So did I at the Cimmaron, Louies and the Bombay Club. And that fiasco from Reg 14. Good food and door prizes, but four hundred umpires and they only buy two kegs and put a 3rd on hold. I can understand not wanting everyone there all night, but damn, to run out of beer is just sinful :rolleyes:

Tru_in_Blu Wed Feb 11, 2009 03:56pm

Do we have an answer to the riddle?

Thanx,

Ted

Big Slick Wed Feb 11, 2009 03:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 577568)
You are discussing baseball just by indicating their method of player designation. You didn't pay attention to JJ in the OBS/INT portion, did you? :D



So did I at the Cimmaron, Louies and the Bombay Club. And that fiasco from Reg 14. Good food and door prizes, but four hundred umpires and they only buy two kegs and put a 3rd on hold. I can understand not wanting everyone there all night, but damn, to run out of beer is just sinful :rolleyes:

Maybe running out of 3.2 beer is a blessing.

And what was up with the bar closing at 11pm on Thursday?

IRISHMAFIA Wed Feb 11, 2009 05:01pm

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Quote:

0 outs, R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6 who makes a play to 1B. The BR just beats the throw, but only touches the white portion of the double base.

As F3 throws to 3B in an attempt to get the late-breaking R1, B2 takes a hard left and continues to 2B.

R1 is tagged out. The defense then makes a live ball appeal that B2 missed 1B since he did not tag the colored portion of the base. The umpires consult and rule that the appeal is not applicable and B2 safe.

The defense then protests the game on the basis of the umpire crew's misinterpretation of rule 8.2.M.3

The PU refuses to accept the protest. Is this correct? If not, why?
As noted, rule 9.1.2 notes that a protest based upon the misinterpretation of a rule must be made before the next play.

The discussion is base upon the throw to 3B AFTER the BR missed the base. Some consider this the "next play".

After making a fool of myself by questioning the requirement of "next play" thanks to a brain fart that reverted to "appeal" as opposed to protest, it was explained, if I remember correctly as that is not the manner in which that qualification was intended.

Someone can correct me if wrong. The line of thought was that by using this to refuse the appeal, you are pretty much giving the offending team a break.

However, the more I think about it, I don't believe there really is a problem with the sentence. If used as I believe it was meant, in the play above the misinterpretation of the rule occurred when the umpire determined there was no violation by the BR.

Hence, there was no play between the misinterpretation and the protest. A team cannot protest an interpretation prior to it being made.

ronald Wed Feb 11, 2009 05:20pm

Mike,

Sorry, have read your last post zillions of times and have not a clue as to what is right, left, up or down.:confused:
Thanks, Ron

AtlUmpSteve Wed Feb 11, 2009 05:23pm

There were several important issues in this play. The following is the official ruling and thought process.

When a play was made at 1st base on the BR, the BR was required to touch the orange bag. Touching only the white bag is a missed base, and can be appealed until the runner returns to either bag. In this case the runner proceeded to 2nd, so the runner did, in fact miss touching the correct base.

The attempt to retire the other runner is not considered a next play; it is a continuation of the current play, would be considered a subsequent play on a different runner under the obstruction exception, but has no bearing on an appeal. When appealed, the correct ruling should be "out". If the ruling is that the BR did touch the orange bag, then that part would be judgment, but any statement that touching white alone would be allowed is a misinterpretation of a playing rule. Since there was no play made between the misinterpretation and the protest, the protest must be allowed; and since the rule was misapplied in the case play (if not clearly stated in the OP), the ruling must be overturned.

So, don't be confused by the "next play"; it was a red herring in the case play, and sure bit Mike. Once the continuing action ended, and time is called (in slow pitch) or could be called (in fast pitch) to hear a dead ball appeal, then and only then can there be a "next play" that would halt a legal protest.

ronald Wed Feb 11, 2009 05:37pm

thanks.

azbigdawg Wed Feb 11, 2009 06:00pm

Mike still owes me a beer for his public "oops" on this one.....

IRISHMAFIA Wed Feb 11, 2009 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbigdawg (Post 578297)
Mike still owes me a beer for his public "oops" on this one.....

Wait a minute! Seems to me, I picked up a nice sized check on Saturday night...or was it Sunday morning?. I think it covered about six states. ;)

NCASAUmp Wed Feb 11, 2009 07:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 578301)
Wait a minute! Seems to me, I picked up a nice sized check on Saturday night...or was it Sunday morning?. I think it covered about six states. ;)

You forgot a certain state in Region 4. My mouth is a little dry over here... ;)

AtlUmpSteve Wed Feb 11, 2009 08:25pm

Region 4 was well represented. Your NC representatives (Phil, BJ and Al) opted out from the extracurricular (although I did drink with Al one dinner).

And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

NCASAUmp Wed Feb 11, 2009 08:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 578337)
Region 4 was well represented. Your NC representatives (Phil, BJ and Al) opted out from the extracurricular (although I did drink with Al one dinner).

And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

I appreciate the good words. I consider myself very privileged to know them.

Except Al. He's a bit off. Just kidding, Al's a great guy!

IRISHMAFIA Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 578337)
And there were several of those checks to go around. Our checks did represent GA, AZ, DE, PA, MD, NE and TX, as best I recall.

I believe NM & DC may have also been at the table for at least one round.

Have no idea why the Great Northwest chose to not to share a beverage or two.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Feb 12, 2009 08:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 578267)
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

After making a fool of myself by questioning the requirement of "next play" thanks to a brain fart that reverted to "appeal" as opposed to protest, it was explained, if I remember correctly as that is not the manner in which that qualification was intended.

Someone can correct me if wrong. The line of thought was that by using this to refuse the appeal, you are pretty much giving the offending team a break.

However, the more I think about it, I don't believe there really is a problem with the sentence. If used as I believe it was meant, in the play above the misinterpretation of the rule occurred when the umpire determined there was no violation by the BR.

Hence, there was no play between the misinterpretation and the protest. A team cannot protest an interpretation prior to it being made.

Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions? :rolleyes:

Ted

Dakota Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 578454)
Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions? :rolleyes:

Ted

Nah, he's the "editor." :D

AtlUmpSteve Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 578454)
Are you the person writing some of those ASA test questions? :rolleyes:

Ted

I know the question was facetious. Still, the process, as I understand it, is the members of the NUS present proposed questions to KR. He uses his Deputy Supervisors (one or some, primarily JJ) to help edit, but he is the primary test compiler (as opposed to author).

greymule Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:52pm

We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule (Post 578599)
We should be careful about applying the baseball concept of "continuing action" to softball.

R1 on 2B. B2 hits a grounder to F6, who fakes R1 back to 2B and then throws to 1B. B2 beats the throw but touches only the white (i.e., misses 1B). The ball gets away from F3.

B2 advances to 2B. R1 rounds 3B and stands 20 feet down the line, trying to draw a throw. F3 runs the ball in and chases R1 all the way back to 3B. F3 then hands the ball to F1, who is standing next to her near 3B. As F3 returns to her position, F1 walks toward the circle while R1 stands on 3B talking to the 3B coach. Several seconds later, just before F1 enters the circle, R1 breaks for home. F1 throws home in an attempt to get R1 (outcome doesn't matter).

The defense now appeals B2's miss of 1B.

In ASA, regardless of how much or what type of action occurs after a baserunning error, the defense can appeal until the next pitch, legal or illegal (or the infielders have vacated, or last play of game and umpires have left, etc.). Therefore, the appeal should be upheld.

In OBR, the intervening play—after the stoppage of continuing action—would void the right of the defense to appeal.

(Note: Fed and NCAA baseball don't follow OBR exactly in this area. I'm not sure, but I think they recognize continuing versus relaxed action but do not void an appeal if the offense initiates the intervening play.)

The concept of continuing versus relaxed action certainly complicates the game, but remember that in baseball, runners can break for the next base at any time that the ball is live, such as when the pitcher is getting the sign. In OBR, in theory, several batters could bat without the ball becoming dead. This of course is not true in softball. And (except for Babe Ruth), softball permits dead ball appeals, which OBR does not.

And all that is fine (even in 'bama), if we were talking about appeals. We are talking about a protest.

SRW Thu Feb 12, 2009 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 578392)
I believe NM & DC may have also been at the table for at least one round.

Have no idea why the Great Northwest chose to not to share a beverage or two.

Yeah, we shared. We just didn't know where the f*k you were. We were typically in the bar across from the training rooms, or we retired to someone's room and sat around shooting the schitt and drinking crown.

Sorry we missed ya. Sounds like the umpire communication broke down. :)

AtlUmpSteve Thu Feb 12, 2009 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 578719)
Yeah, we shared. We just didn't know where the f*k you were. We were typically in the bar across from the training rooms, or we retired to someone's room and sat around shooting the schitt and drinking crown.

Sorry we missed ya. Sounds like the umpire communication broke down. :)

No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 12, 2009 05:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 578748)
No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!


5...4...3...2...1.....I expected Darrell to chime in by now.

And yes, when three people drink for nearly two hours for less than $10, it was very advantageous.

rwest Thu Feb 12, 2009 05:58pm

Definitions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 577270)
The BR is always referred to as the BR until the time she becomes a runner. In the course of one play, the BR will not become a R. I know of no one who describes plays in that manner, unless it is the little ball folk.

This year for the first time I've noticed that just by definition this is not necessarily the case. I agree with your nomenclature and thats how I've always thought of and used the terms but the definitions indicate something else. I've read the rule book every year for the past seven years and have just noticed this this year.

Batter Runner: A player who has completed a turn at bat but has not yet been put out or reached first base.

Runner: An offensive player who has reached first base and has not yet been put out or scored.

So B1 lays down a bunt, between home and 1st she is a batter runner, by definition. Once she reaches first she now, by definition, becomes a runner.

I know there is language throughout the book that uses batter-runner rounding first base (i.e. the Look Back Rule, taking batter-runner to first base, etc), however, the definition disagrees with this.

Has anyone else every noticed the discrepancy in the definition and how its used in the book?

azbigdawg Thu Feb 12, 2009 08:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 578748)
No kidding. Mike posted here before the convention, as well as during, that we would be at Chisolm's, not the Bombay Club.

Actually, we did attend the Bombay Club Thursday night, since Chisolm's closed early. We stayed with Rod and the Alaska group pretty late that night. But Friday and Saturday we went to Chisolm's; we had an "arrangement" with the barkeep that was mutually advantageous.

In fact, it was so advantageous that AZBIGDOG drank MY BEER!!

Im not stupid...It was swill..but it was CHEAP swill....

I was in hell...a black man stuck in a western bar with no real beer in sight.....It was tragic....

azbigdawg Thu Feb 12, 2009 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 578719)
Yeah, we shared. We just didn't know where the f*k you were. We were typically in the bar across from the training rooms, or we retired to someone's room and sat around shooting the schitt and drinking crown.

Sorry we missed ya. Sounds like the umpire communication broke down. :)



I think the PNW is scared of the rest of the country.......

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest (Post 578808)

Has anyone else every noticed the discrepency in the definition and how its used in the book?

It is a matter of communicating in an effectual and understandable manner.

Enough people have a problem dealing with the player designations at the beginning of a play. Could you imagine how difficult it would be if it changed midplay?

B4, with a 3-2 count, hits a ball to RC. Seeing the ball get past F9, the BR moves wide into foul territory to round 1B. Still watching the ball, R4 bumps into F3 and ....

Three separate designations of a player in a single play that isn't even over yet.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbigdawg (Post 578849)
I was in hell...a black man stuck in a western bar with no real beer in sight.....It was tragic....

Hell??? You had two of the horniest fillies in the place fixated on you. You could have spent the whole weekend with those two and had all the good beer you wanted :rolleyes:

The only thing would have had to do is figure out how to put on the spurs ;)

AtlUmpSteve Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 578857)
Hell??? You had two of the horniest fillies in the place fixated on you. You could have spent the whole weekend with those two and had all the good beer you wanted :rolleyes:

The only thing would have had to do is figure out how to put on the spurs ;)

True story. But, oh dear God. I have much more respect for Darrell drinking beer he considers swill than if he had even made eye contact with that readhead (let alone her companion).

SRW Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbigdawg (Post 578850)
I think the PNW is scared of the rest of the country.......

We will not only out-drink you, we'll close the bar down and shut out the lights after you leave (once we find out where you are).

:)

Our NUS is this weekend in Olympia - begins tonight. It sounds like we have a similiar deal with our bartenders already set up - $5 buy in to an open bar. 8 NUS instructors, plus KR showing up to "observe" how we continually and successfully pull off a NUS with over 200 attendees (I think last count we were at 210 or so..) He doesn't think it's possible to be successful (even though we proved the NUS wrong in 2006 with 276 attendees). It's gonna be a good time!

IRISHMAFIA Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 579052)
We will not only out-drink you, we'll close the bar down and shut out the lights after you leave (once we find out where you are).

:)

Well, if you were with us, that is exactly what happened at Chisholms Saturday night. They actually locked up, cleaned up around us and then we went to breakfast.

Trust me, you are dealing with professionals here. You wouldn't have a prayer.

Quote:

Our NUS is this weekend in Olympia - begins tonight. It sounds like we have a similiar deal with our bartenders already set up - $5 buy in to an open bar. 8 NUS instructors, plus KR showing up to "observe" how we continually and successfully pull off a NUS with over 200 attendees (I think last count we were at 210 or so..) He doesn't think it's possible to be successful (even though we proved the NUS wrong in 2006 with 276 attendees). It's gonna be a good time!
While I'm sure it is good, I don't believe there is any way an umpire gets their money's worth at a school that big.

How many State schools are there in the Region?

SRW Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 579115)
While I'm sure it is good, I don't believe there is any way an umpire gets their money's worth at a school that big.

How many State schools are there in the Region?

The school was great. The final count was 212. And yes, they got their money's worth. That's because we know how to do it right. Didn't hear one complaint about anything other than the sub sandwiches delivered on Saturday for lunch ran out of condiment packets (mayo, mustard).

All of the states (WA, OR, ID, MT, AK) have state schools - except this year WA combined theirs into this NUS. The three metros hold their own schools as well. Seattle's is spread out over 4 2-hour days - one per month for four months.

bkbjones Tue Feb 17, 2009 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbigdawg (Post 578849)
Im not stupid...It was swill..but it was CHEAP swill....I was in hell...a black man stuck in a western bar with no real beer in sight.....It was tragic....

Swill? It could have been A1 or Lucky Lager!!!!!!
I will vouch for the PNW/Region 15. They were still in shock because their hospitality was so much better than Region 14 and felt it was better to remain sequestered than to be out and about and -- for no obvious reason -- break into hysterics.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 580357)
The school was great. The final count was 212. And yes, they got their money's worth.

You couldn't sell me on that with your money. I have a hard time believing an umpire can get the necessary attention with that many people, even with a 25-1 ratio. Just a personal opinion.


Quote:

All of the states (WA, OR, ID, MT, AK) have state schools - except this year WA combined theirs into this NUS.
And that is another problem(not WA specifically). I have yet to have an umpire return from a National school stating it was boring. There are far too many inexperienced umpires dumped into National schools. It's great that they fill the schools, but those who are there to get to the next step sometimes end up learning little to nothing more than what they already knew.

General comments, not directed toward Reg. 15

Congratulations on conducting a successful school, but you would die a slow and painful death at the bar :D

SRW Wed Feb 18, 2009 02:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 580560)
You couldn't sell me on that with your money. I have a hard time believing an umpire can get the necessary attention with that many people, even with a 25-1 ratio. Just a personal opinion.

Then I double dog dare you to come out to our next NUS in Region 15 and experience it for yourself.

bkbjones Wed Feb 18, 2009 04:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 580560)
You couldn't sell me on that with your money. I have a hard time believing an umpire can get the necessary attention with that many people, even with a 25-1 ratio. Just a personal opinion.

One reason ours are successful: when you come up here for a national school, you get personal neck rubs from Malcolm and Bill.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Feb 18, 2009 08:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 580610)
Then I double dog dare you to come out to our next NUS in Region 15 and experience it for yourself.

Not happening. I've been to the PNW once, and that was enough.


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