2009 ASA Rool buks
 

Received the 2009 ASA book last night. Nice pretty cover. Editor should be fired, tho.

Pg. 38: width of catcher's box is only listed correctly for 16" SP. No total width is shown for the other 3 games.

Pg. 162: 42 pages of safety awareness.

Pg. 219: Elements of a Success Umpire.

That's just a quick look. I'm sure I'll find more.

According to another thread, this wasn't an editorial mistake. Knowing some of the yahoos I work with around here, it was an editorial necessity.

They have an editor????

Quit yer whining! :cool:

Personally, I was glad to see some of the changes/updates to the book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U

Open up the 2009 rules.

Go to book page 106.

Read section B. Pay attention to the sentence beginning with "ASA's official playing rules" about half way thru the paragraph.

Now, I'm disappointed that ASA has not taken religious equality into consideration in their playing rules. Muslims and Jews will no longer play our sport.

I'm not sure I'd want to umpire that game anyway. I have enough trouble with the drunks and smokers.

I don't drink THAT often, and I quit smoking!

Oh, I still haven't had a smoke since Jan 1, btw. Woohoo!

Back to the subject at hand, will they have the PDF version available this year? It's not on officialgear.com...

Just flipping through my shiny new book...

(Page 168- Safety Awareness Guide) Catcher Masks and Throat Protectors for Juniour Olympic Fast Pitch: Catcher's must wear an approved batter's helmet with ear flaps, the catcher's helmet and mask, or an approved plastic face mask/guard with catcher's helmet. A throat protector for Junior Olympic fast pitch catchers is mandatory.

WTF? Compare that with the equipment rule covering catcher's gear found under rule 3.

"An approved batter's helmet" is something altogether different than a "catcher's helmet"- either the kind made to have a conventional mask attached or the hockey-style helmets.

"An approved batter's helmet" is one with an approved NOCSAE facemask permanently attached and a chin strap.

Can a catcher wear a batting helmet with a face mask instead of the usual catcher's headgear? Where do you properly attach a throat protector to that? Does the catcher need to wear a conventional mask over top of the batting helmet face mask?

"An approved plastic face mask/guard"- isn't that the "Game Face" style of face protector described under rule 3 as the kind that "any defensive player" can wear?

Can the Game Face-type mask (like the ones worn by pitchers) be a suitable replacement for a conventional catcher's mask?

Keep reading.

Keep reading because I'll eventually find something that explains this, or keep reading because I'll find even more confusing directives in the Safety Guide? :rolleyes:

Just trying to narrow it down- there's, like, 290 more pages of stuff to read! :D

Rule 3.5.D

Of course, I had already read the actual rule and suspected that's where you were pointing me.

The rule says that a catcher "cannot merely wear the plastic face mask/guard". Doesn't that mean wear it alone, minus other proctective headgear required by the rule?

The SAG (we have a new acronym, and it's not the Screen Actors Guild) says that a plastic face mask/guard may be worn with a catcher's helmet.

Which brings me back to one of my original questions: Is the plastic face mask/guard a suitable replacement for the standard catcher's mask? (Note that I didn't say, "For the standard mask AND the helmet".)

My bigger question: Why does the Safety Guide offer guidelines that are so contradictary to the existing rules?

I must be missing your point because I don't see the contradiction.

TTBOMK, the Game Face or similar products to not carry NOCSAE-approval stamps, therefore would not be considered "approved".

Personally, this is one reason I think putting the SAG in the rule book is going to cause more issues in the future than it will provide resolution. IOW, I think it isn't too smart. Then again, I think it is stupid that manufacturers are required to put ludicrous safety warnings on their products. If someone needs to be told not to operate an electric saw while standing in a swimming pool filled with water, the world may be better off without them. :eek:

Hey, keep it up! Good for you.

I quit April 1st so I'm coming up on my 1 yr. Youre way over the hump bro, but I can tell you even 10 months later I occasionally still want one.

Throw that yoke off. Just move on accepting you will still want one. I dont know when that goes away, prolly different for every one.

I don't have my 2009 book yet, so I'm relying on the quote Bretman posted above, and contrasting it with the 2007 book (which I have as a PDF). Sentences in the two quotes of the same color are directly contradictory. The saving grace is very few people will actually read the SAG. :rolleyes:

I disagree.

Both sentences clearly indicate that a plastic face mask worn by a catcher must be approved.

At least my point wasn't so vague that nobody got it! :)

The rule you quote from 2007 was edited in the 2008 book, and reads the same in 2009, as I quoted above. Instead of saying, "FP catchers cannot wear the plastic face mask/guard", it now reads, "Fast pitch catchers cannot merely wear the plastic face mask/guard".

Somewhere along the the line, the rule was modified. Somebody purposely and consciously added the "merely" in there. That changes the context of the rule. The old rule flat-out prohibited this type of mask. The newer version suggests that the plastic guard, alone by itself, is not acceptable but could be worn in conjuction with an "approved" helmet.

We have a rule that suggests the "Game Face" type guard is acceptable, along with a Safety Guide that explicitly says it's acceptable. The Safety Guide also says that a "batting helmet" is acceptable headgear for a catcher.

If a catcher came out in one of your games wearing a batting helmet and a Game Face mask would you allow it?


The equipment rules specify that batting helmets worn by offensive players must be NOCSAE approved, as do face masks attached to those helmets.

They do not specify NOCSAE approval for catcher's face masks, catcher's helmets or for any helmet worn by a defensive player in the field. So what does "approved" mean for those?

To answer my own question, I take it that "approved" in this sense means equipment that is acceptable through custom and practice. We know what a commercially available catcher's mask looks like and if what the catcher is wearing looks like one in good working order, it fits the bill. Absent a rule-specified standard, the "approval" is at the discretion of the umpire or game administrators.

No, this isn't something I'm going to lose any sleep over or expect to have a huge headache with once the season get underway. It's merely an observation on the title subject- the 2009 rule book.

Why publish a Safety Guide that contains information that conflicts with the printed rules? But, enough on the subject. I'm typing this post on my laptop while enjoying a good soak in my hot tub. The battery is running low and I'm going to need to reach over and plug in the power cord... :D

Are you distantly related to Lewis Carroll? Or, maybe Bill Clinton?

Here's what I have heard on the topic.

The older rule that said a FP catcher could not wear a plastic face guard was editorially changed; the change doesn't (intend to) suggest that the plastic face guard might replace the mandated equipment, it is intended to now allow the faceguard to worn in addition to the required equipment. The former wording made that (both) illegal; while I don't expect to see a catcher wearing a GameFace or equivalent in addition to the required equipment, that change now makes it possible.

The Safety Guide wording is, quite simply, wrong; if you look at the wording for JO slowpitch catchers in the following paragraph, it is word-for-word, other than the last sentence regarding a throat protector. They (the editors) let the lesser slowpitch requirements be printed for both fastpitch and slowpitch. Thankfully, I don't believe anyone is foolish enough to believe that this would supercede the rule.

In re: a 2009 .PDF file, we were given a CD at the UIC Clinic with the 2009 Rulebook, Casebook, Umpire Manual and Clinic Guide. Since they exist, it is likely (and reasonably) only a matter of time before they are also commercially available.

I'm sure there are plenty of explanations to go around. You look at it as wrong, I think CYA. Just like folks who used to argue that "resin" was incorrect and it should be "rosin".

Just because it is noted where it is, doesn't necessarily make it wrong. For all we know, someone had the foresight of what may be to come. After all, a couple years ago a batter's helmet was developed and produced as a single piece w/NOCSAE approval. Unfortunately, that did not coincide with the wording of the rule. Who is to say we will not see an approved one-piece plastic helmet or plastic face mask strong enough to be awarded NOCSAE approval? :rolleyes:

The SAG is simply what it states, a GUIDE, not a rule. Of course, there already have been and will be folks who are going to want to cite the SAG as it applies to the game.

p.163 "Anyone who has played softball, or any other contact sport..."

:confused:

How to you tag someone without contact? ;)

"Spock, I said put your phaser on stun!!!"

To the best of my knowledge there has not never nohow been a NOCSAE standard for a catcher's MASK.

For the mask itself, that may be true. But in today's world, the catcher's headgear comes as a single unit and meet a NOCSAE standard.

A couple years ago at an ASA National equipment check-in, many of the catchers brought their helmet/masks and showed us the NOCSAE stamp, even though we did not request to see it.

And there are no NOCSAE requirements made by ASA, but that doesn't mean it gets ignored. While ASA demands an "approved" mask, I don't see where the standard of approval is noted.