NAFA Does Not Last Long In This Area
 

NAFA has already been replaced in this area. [Texas]

IFA is taking over. NAFA lasted 3/4th of a season locally. Once the Nats
was over, it was replaced.

http://www.ifasoftballcentral.com/:confused:

Glad I only bought two shirts. They were on a two for one sale.

Can't you Texans make up your mind? And here I thought it was Presidents from Georgia that sat high in the straddle.

Sure they can. Tommy Voss in Beaumont has made up his mind to make money on teams, umpires, and insurance commissions, and NAFA wasn't kicking enough back.

Keep buying shirts, Glen; they haven't run out of letters yet.

Politics as usual
 

Sad.........AFA had a pretty good following on the Gulf Coast of Texas and Oklahoma (both ASA strongholds). Many ASA resgistered teams played in the AFA qualifiers here just in case they did not get qualify for the ASA championships.

It was a beneficial symbiotic relationship between the two.

As is usual in the creation of competing organizations.........egos and politics of the individuals at the top get in the way of the big picture.

I have fond memories of the old AFA group. Glen umpired in one of the National tournaments that one of my daughters played in.

Lately it has just come become more diluted..........(which I am sure he will admit).

Joel

Same thing here in Okla. NAFA gone.

They decided to let us wear our high school uniform so we won't have to buy anything new.........YET.

Yes, that is what we were told also. Hope they are not pulling
our chain. I am running out of closet space. They just want us
to wear an IFA cap. Hmmmm wonder what that will cost?

They instituted this method in the local leagues a few years back and it absolutely killed the local association. I don't like be paid on the field for a couple of reasons.

One reason is convenient store clerks get killed for less than $50 and a pack of cigarettes and a lot of the local parks are not well lit and security is non-existant.

Also, there is no incentive for an umpire to come to assn. meetings. And before you say, "well, just fine them", that would be awfully hard since there is no money in escrow (game fees due) from which to draw the fine. And before you say, "then just don't schedule them", and how do you suggest the assn. fulfill it's contract to provide umpires to the local leagues? Even if you could, already strapped associations are not looking to drive umpires away, but retain them and that isn't going to help if you start your season with a statement, "you need to pay us $xxx.xx before you can get a clinic or game".

Tournaments are no big deal, but for the sake of the local associations, I pay out tournament fees at their meetings and those who don't show, do not get paid until after the last association meeting. Not saying it helps that much, but it is my responsibility to aid the local associations in whatever manner I can.

I agree in part and disagree in part.

Ideally, umpires should be paid through the association and not on the field, security of that situation not being a concern IMO. This serves several other important purposes, from chain of command, to the money trail, to making sure the association and assigner gets their due.

Pay should be promptly, within a week or two, provided to the umpire, who is an independent contractor and deserving of pay for work provided in a timely manner.

Appearance at the association meetings can be a factor in deciding to assign, but should not be a factor in paying them once you choose to assign them; IMO.

Well, unfortunately, it isn't always that simple. I tried to make it that simple one year, but the money isn't always that quickly available. In this case, I'm referring to championship play, but it isn't only then. Colleges and high schools will not pay for games until they receive an invoice, process it and having the board issue a check. And occasionally, it can take months before the association receive remuneration for services rendered.

Again, it is not always that easy.

The only pay at the plate we have is travel ball. HS and college, check sent to
the umpire that called the game by the school that was home team. Even ASA
tournaments here are pay at the plate.

That is pretty degrading IMO, and embarrassing.

But i've heard the texas umpire situation discussed a lot over at Heybucket, including this aspect. I think that area could use a little revamping. Part of that overhaul could be a more professional organization and billing system.

I would not put issues involving billing/red tape in the same category as intentionally withholding a private contractors pay until they attend a meeting.


I know one college assigner around here who pays once a year. Period. So thats it. If you choose to work for him, you do so knowing that.

That would hold true with your group as well, if you dont like it, dont work for your org.


I just dont agree with it.

That is an organizational problem, not a problem for those who are doing the work.

All of the high schools in this part of Pa pay at the game, via check.
Most of the colleges I see pay at the game, 'tho there are some that it takes up to 5-6 weeks. Travel reimbursement does come once a year - at the end of the season.
Summer league play - and this includes some legion & adult wood bat BB - pay at the game. And this is almost always by check.
The ISC group I work with generally pays within 3 weeks - by check.
Tournaments have always paid by the end of the last day - with the note (not exception) that some pay at the end of each day.

Maybe I've gotten spoiled by this - in looking at how some areas are paid, I kinda think I have been spoiled. Most of the games I do are not for the local district - wonder why - so Mike's area's way of paying would not impact me. I do like the idea of having some way of, not forcing but "encouraging" local meeting attendance.

A few questions..

If its pay at the game, how does the umpire organization get paid? Is it separate billing?

How is it accounted for with a 1099 or is it?

I wish it was all cash under the table for a game, but its just not in my area. Those days are gone. HS and travel ball tournaments go through an association, with everyone getting their kick and its all by contract. This is not a handshake type deal.

It seems very different in other areas.

The umpire organization does not get paid - we're independant contractors.
As for 1099's, most of the high schools and all of the colleges have W-9's, but I don't usually get to $600 in a quater for any of them. I'm in a very rural area - huge ASA district, for example, but primarily farm land which does not make for a big number population-wise.

Yeah, every area seems to be different. Like you said - if you don't like the way it's done, work elsewhere. The vast majority of the games I do are outside of my area - but that's because I like higher level games.

Interesting. I am also rurual, but I travel to work the big events within my own metro.

Here, it works like this

Several tournament hosting organizations have contracted with the umpire organization to provide officials for tournaments. The tournaments are pretty much weekly through the season (mar-nov) and some huge. Each weekend 30-80 umpires are dispatched to these tournaments. This does not include any national / regional championship play events.

Likewise on the NFHS side, every high school I know of goes through our organization to provide officials for most of their games of just every sport. As such, it would be very easy for me to say, transition to football or baseball, because it is the same organization; albeit different leadership. I know the peeps, and easy to get in if I chose.

The exceptions for ASA are: Rec leagues & beer leagues and some small friendlies that do not include outside teams. The exceptions for high school usually involve JV programs. I am a local UIC under my association and I have some rec leagues and beer leagues under me where the organization gets nothing (and neither do I). There are 9 or 10 other similar areas, only one of whom goes through the org for their rec league. These all have various methods of payment, which do not include the umpire organization.

There are also strong ties to the NCAA community, with our regional UIC also a top dog in NCAA, so were one capable and able, it is an easy transition to make in roads to the NCAA, from there your career is in your hands.


So this is an extensive network of officiating and tournament hosting organizations with significant and continuous training and evaluation of umpires.

It sounds a little different than your area; I'm not sure how you could coordinate weekly events involving dozens of umpires at multiple sites without a central command.. so I'm not sure how active it is in your area.

For pay, we get paid weekly from our assocation, just like a job. At the end of the year, those who made over a certain amount get a 1099. I'm not sure what that amount is because I've certainly always well exceeded whatever minimum that is and I'm not involved in that aspect. Also for every umpire dispatched to an event, the org receives payment which is disbursed, for example ot the assigner, etc. The association is run a board (of which I am a insignificant member) who who meet monthly and decide all things wondrous, or in the alternative, whine ad nauseum.

Thats about how it goes here.

WTF? ohhh great. :rolleyes:

Whomever the heck takes over, I hope they up the umpire fee's... last years was a tad low. IMHO

I seriously doubt that the officials; you know, the ones out on the field working, feel degraded or embarrassed by accepting their pay up front, on the field. There are several tournaments every weekend in this area. Each one with it's own assignor/UIC. What compensation for his/her duties that person negotiates with the tournament hosts is his/her concern. As Steve M said, we are independant contractors and like it that way. Please keep your "big government" approach and any revamping to yourself. :)

Hear Ye Hear Ye...Thank you Topper.

Well, obviously, it all depends on where you are standing as to whether this is true or not, or if such an operating format would succeed or not.

BTW, who is talking about big government?

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying necessarily. I would though like to know what Mr. Voss's side of the argument is.

A few comments about some of the other posts in this thread:

I worked the Sulphur National tournament this year and thought the fees were more than adequate. I would prefer the status quo in my neck of the woods. (SE Houston). Things are just fine pay wise and we sure as heck don't need an "organization" or a "system" to fix things. If it isn't broke, why does someone feel a need to fix it?

My main beef is with TASO (TX high school ball) where it takes forever to get a check. They get away with it because they are an "organized" "system" that could give a rip about how much softball umpire fees are and has been at the same rate structure for a long time.

First of all, TASO has nothing to do with your getting a check. That is between you and the institution (school) you worked for. TASO also has nothing to do with the rate structure of officials' fees in Texas. TASO is merely your voice to the UIL, rather than a few thousand people trying to petition the UIL altogether. TASO is an organization that makes sure you have the materials to officiate with, to help set officiating standards (such as uniform policies), and to make sure you are adequately insured while officiating, or on the way to or from an event. That is the purpose of TASO.

UIL, on the other hand, does set the fees that you will be paid, including maximums that institutions can pay for officials' services. They are also the authors of 1204, the much debated article of this year. The UIL has mandated for ages (as long as I can remember, and that is quite a while) that schools have a check in your hands within 45 days of the date of service, and encourages the schools to pay even sooner than that. (From my understanding, the 45 day period was decided on because many school disctricts, especially the 1 and 2 A ones, frequently cut checks just once a month.) If you an institution fails to pay you in that time frame, you need to immediately report said institution to the UIL in writing. (A quick phone call doesn't hurt either.)

As for the rate structure in Texas for softball umpires, seven years ago it set at $30.00 a game. About three, maybe four years ago, it was upped to $35.00 a game. This year it has been raised to $40.00 a game. I don't know about you, but two raises in a seven year period doesn't constitute as being "the same rate structure for a long time," in my book.

If you have issues that need to be addressed with the UIL, then I strongly encourage you to contact the president of your local chapter, or your district director. If that doesn't work, I have always found the people at TASO extremely easy to contact and to work with. However, I do recommend following the chain of command.

It's definitely a different approach than I am accustomed to. Better? I'm not sure, but I'll let it rest as it is. No purpose would be served by debating it IMO.

Understand that our "approach" evolved (or devolved if you like) IMO due to the lack of a viable local or regional association. Once credability and trust are lost, it's difficult to regain them. Even when it comes to Skahtboi's precious TASO. We have been dealing with this situation so long here that change would be difficult to affect.

We can "get a draw any time," which is not true and to me is demeaning. Some of the money goes for "overhead," which we really don't have for ASA FP games. Well, I take that back. We pay an assignor who doesn't assign ASA FP tournament games. The only overhead is the eventual generation of a 1099 and the postage to send a check -- both of which are an effort of time, money and effort.

We get demeaned if we want to buy more than a case of water and a bunch of bananas for a territorial or national tournament, much less a weekend. Never mind that we are several, multiple, thousands of dollars in the black. (We're in better shape than the Big 3 auto makers.)

We have to ask for a draw which "can be done weekly." Yep. Sure can. Of course then you get put down for asking for a draw -- for our OWN money that WE have earned. Heaven forbid we should ever ever ever go to a cash system, or even allow some extremely trustworthy individual such as SRW to be able to get enough cash outta the bank to pay umpires.

We get paid by check as we leave the game, every game. glad I work where I work... fuq waiting on my money, I earned it. :D
And I try as I might I am never embarrassed or demeaned getting my $25 or $30 bucks in cash from a coach at the plate meeting during the travel ball season... maybe my standards are too low?.... but then again I hang out with you guys!! ;)

Actually, on the other site, the Texas umpire situation is compained about quite a bit. If you read the Texas board, umpires are quite the topic. Those are your client's and they are apprarently not happy. So whatever situation is going on in Texas, it is being reflected in how your clients are perceiving you. I hope you guys are able to work out these issues.

Thats a shame.

There you go again, telling lies about me. :p

Seriously though, I would admit that our system is quite antiquated. Repeated attempts to improve efficiency and reduce effort have been poo-poo'd. It'll take a strong leader with a complete understanding of the whole picture to fix it... and a board that will back "breaking tradition."

Personally, I'd rather NOT have the money. Let the association(s) hold it for me and give me a lump sum at the end of the season.

It is an effective manner of saving money without a bank account and it makes it easier to manage the paperwork for tax purposes.

Others may think it is silly, but if it is in my pocket as I make it, it is gone that much quicker and it seems like I'm making next to nothing.

Just a guess... you also manage your withholding to get a large refund at tax time? ;)

What other site? Got on the heybucket TX board but didn't find what you're referring to although I'm sure it's there. I'm interested to know what our "clients'" perception of us is.

Interesting that you throw a blanket over the entire state. Texas is pretty big. I can be in Mobile quicker than I can El Paso or Lubbock. You may as well just extend your blanket to cover the entire Gulf Coast.

I probably won't take it personally if people that play 6-8 (or even 2) hrs from here are upset with their umpiring situation.

What's a refund? ;)

:confused: WTF :confused:

No offense was meant. I apologize for the tone, I should have worded it differently. You have been a big defender of TASO on more than one occasion, which I can absolutely respect. I just feel differently about the level of representation they provide their officials.

Did not see it either.

Looking through the summer threads, it seems the San Marcos/Austin umps bore the brunt of the ire, so apologies for any implied generalization.

Admittedly, it could be austin area parents are just more whiney. :D

As I have stated before, it is not so much as I am a "big defender" of TASO, as it is until I hear a better alternative then I feel it is what we have to work with, and rather than shoot it down because of some flaws, we should work to fix it or to find something that will work even better. Complaining for the sake of complaining never gets anything accomplished.

In this thread, however, my "defense" of TASO was simply that the blame was being laid at the wrong feet. TASO is not, nor never has been, responsible for getting officials paid in Texas, or for the guidelines that govern their payment. That is strictly the domain of the UIL. I think, oftentimes, that officials in Texas confuse the roles of TASO and the UIL. In many cases they see them as one in the same entity. This just isn't the case.

As we have discussed before, representation begins as the local level.

Also, no offense was taken with your comments, I was just unaware that TASO was my "beloved." :rolleyes::D

Geez, haven't you heard all the B(C)S carping from the Austin area? You'd think they had shut down Blue Bell Creamery or Jaime's Spanish Village or something...

And the San Marcos folks are obviously going through withdrawals since most of their teams haven't been worth a damn since they dropped the "Southwestern" in front of the Texas State University.:eek:

Austin whiney? Just look at the election results. Austin and El Paso are the only metro areas in TX that are blue, ergo, they are also the areas to whine the most. It's just the way it is. My observation has always been that the older the kids, the less complaining you hear. That's either because by the time that their DD's are 14 they know the rules or are just numb to bad calls.

Plenty of Austin whiney going on right now.

BOOMER SOONER

texas 45 okla 35

Texas Tech 39 Texas 33
Oklahoma 65 Texas Tech 21
Texas 28 Okla State 24 (at Texas)
Oklahoma 61 Okla State 41 (at OSU)
I could go on and on but nuff said except:

OU SOONERS BIG 12 Champions.
OU SOONERS vs. FLORIDA in BCS Championship

BOOMER SOONER

:D

And if you are lucky, maybe someday your school will have the opportunity to play for the NCAA Div I Football Championship.:)

Well said Irish

He forgot that "Minor" Issue:rolleyes:

Seems I have completely lost this thread. :confused: I guess it is safe for me to assume that it has taken on some sort of a football related theme now! :rolleyes:

Does that mean we get to blame it on TASO? :p

Nay, blame
Texas Tech, they were the only ones that could beat TEXAS

Having lived for 8+ years in Austin, I'm loving the "injustice" of it all!

UT fans are insufferable, so good to see them suffer!

One play against a school all the UT "former students" have always thought was barely a college, let alone one on the same level as the mighty UT, has cost them a shot at the Championship. Priceless!

Go Rice Owls. :D

I didn't realize how many Texans were on the forum. It looks like I'll be in good company when I move to Houston next year.

No, Western Michigan will take care of RicePlentiful company, absolutely. "Good" company.......? How far can we go with this one? :D

What was that, Scott? Did I hear you say, "at this rate, this thread will last longer than NAFA in Texas"? :rolleyes:

Ouch! :D

Texas Whiney:

OU+with+Texas+crying+baby (image)

Wadeintothem isn't sending you from CA to do any revamping is he? :D

Let it be. Welpe was absolutely correct to begin with! :cool:

Works for me. Seems they take the blame for everything else! :eek:

No...I'm just escaping from California before the state completely implodes upon itself. Besides, I hear the high school football isn't too bad down there either. ;)

Be sure and let us locals know when you arrive.

What the heck is all of this talk about wasting time with football??? :rolleyes:

State-Capitol-itis


i.e., more politicians

Just don't lump my fat butt with the Texans. I lived there for most of my life but I refused to join the club. Didn't even own a pickup the whole time I lived there!

Back in the olden days of the Southwest Conference, the Humble Network (Humble pretty much = Exxon) carried all of the football games. This was back so long ago that Rice had a good football team. Anyway, just before kickoff of one game featuring those nice Christian kids of SMU v. the nice Christian kids of Rice, the guy doing play by play says, "Let's go down to the field to listen to this big cheer from the Southern Methodist student body!"

So they did...

"What comes out of a Chinaman's @$$? Rice! Rice! Rice!"

Duly noted, bkbjones != Texan. ;)

I personally don't think the oil/energy companies in the Gulf Coast are such a bad thing but then I did grow up with four refineries in my backyard.

whiskers, I'll be sure to touch bases with everyone when I touchdown.

Welpe, are you playing football now, since you are talking about touchdowns instead of touch downs? Dave

bkbjones, I hope you are trying to be cute here. Cuz, truth is, we didn't want your carpetbagging, yankee arse here to begin with.....

"You may all go to Hell…I will go to Texas”-Davy Crockett :D

Didn't notice anyone trying to stop him, did you? ;)

Davey, No Way.:D

Take Glen's word for it. He knew Crockett personally. :D

You saying I am old. :eek:

Oops...sorry, this last season is still fresh in my memory. ;)

Had to jump in after this one. My old man spent some time at Cornell. Their favorite cheer was against the Ivy school from RI:

"What's the color of horsesh!t? BROWN"

Duly noted.

[QUOTE=bkbjones;557608]Just don't lump my fat butt with the Texans. I lived there for most of my life but I refused to join the club. Didn't even own a pickup the whole time I lived there!

Careful when you speak ill of the Republic of Texas. Walker Texas Ranger doesn't take kindly to those who do not pay it enough respect and the last thing you want is to look over your shoulder and see Chuck Norris there.

If you have $5, and Chuck Norris has $5, Chuck Norris has more money than you.

Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.

There is no CTRL button on Chuck Norris' computer. Chuck Norris is always in control.

Good thing Davey was not around when Chuck was, or there would have been
no Walker, Texas Ranger.:)

[QUOTE=PtotheB;558682]Chuck forgets I am now in the home of Bruce Lee. Bring it on, paid advertisement boy. I do have to give Chuck big kudos for having "relations" with the lady D.A.

Meanwhile, the UPS man has still not delivered any Texas BBQ. Ya'll did remember to send it, right?

Chuck is short and cheap.

Who's Chuck Norris?;)

I'm surprised you lived long enough to type the question mark...Chuck Norris has two speeds: Walk, and kill. There is no chin under the Chuck Norris beard, just another fist. Chuck Norris once visited the Virgin Islands: They are now known as "The Islands."

Well, definiately not a NBR 1. Sure did not represent the Big 12 very well.

What was the score in the so called National Championship Game. Sooner should have Locked up with OU, [Ohio State]. The sure let the BIG 12 down.

Let's not be bitter... your longhorns are showing... :D

Utah for #1

I agree with that, then Texas/Fla, USC, then OK.

The NCAA Div I Football Championship was won by the University of Richmond Spiders and there is no debate.

I'm wondering which speed Norris is using when he's hawking the Total Gym equipment with Christie Brinkley. Rumor has it since Norris joined that team; the commercials have been renamed "com merci fuls".:D

I remember Chuck Norris. He's the judge that allowed Average Joe's to play for the championship after Lance One-nut talked Chicken Peter into returning for the game a little late to be seen on ESPN, the Ocho!

Yep, the Cleaver beaver can!

I see U lurking Dakota.