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OK- Vicinity Call

This thread reminded me of a similar issue that falls into the vicinity call category.

Situation: bases loaded, force at home on an easy infield grounder. Ball routinely fielded and thrown to F2 for force out at home. F2 is not standing on the plate; for her foot that is closest to home plate, the heel is about 2 inches forward of the plate. She makes the catch and immediately throws the ball to make another play. She never makes contact with the plate nor does she ever come any closer to it than she was when she made the catch. Do you call safe or out?

Safe. Whether it be one of my baseball or softball games.

I'm sure many of the officials on this board were taught early on as I was that:

1) If you don't see an out, the call is safe.

and

2) You need to be able to explain every call you make.

It's hard to get into too much trouble when these 2 guidelines are followed.

I'd make an off the bag signal first. It'll help to sell it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 539607)

I'd make an off the bag signal first. It'll help to sell it.

A what? :eek:

Seriously, what is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 539632)

A what? :eek:

Seriously, what is that?

Point at the bag and yell, "Off the bag!!!"
or
Hold your palms apart and to the side [e.g., on your left] and push them to your other side [e.g.,your right] . (Picture a defensive football player shedding a blocker to the side)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 539632)

A what? :eek:

Seriously, what is that?

Here's where you and I, I think, would agree, Irish. I am not likely to signal anything but safe. If a coach needs to know why I made the call I made, I have no problem explaining it to him/her afterward. If others wish to explain their call while making their call, that's okay too, but it's not part of my game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper (Post 539637)

That's the way I was taught and it seems nice enough. I don't know any reason not to. It's in the book that way too. Says make the explanation call first orit will look like you're making an excuse.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mick (Post 539636)

Those are the signals. I'd think the first one fits better here. The second one is more for a pulled foot.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 539638)

That's the way I was taught and it seems nice enough. I don't know any reason not to. It's in the book that way too. Says make the explanation call first orit will look like you're making an excuse.

The fact is, the runner is safe. I think the idea that a coach is less likely to come out and question a call based on how the call is made in this instance is, in reality, a bit of a stretch. Like I stated, if you wish to make this a part of your game, that's great. I have not found it to be all that beneficial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 539638)

That's the way I was taught and it seems nice enough. I don't know any reason not to. It's in the book that way too. Says make the explanation call first orit will look like you're making an excuse.

Which association?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canump (Post 539583)

I had this same sit at my National Championships about 4 years ago. 18 & u girls. I was the 3rd base ump in 3 man crew with R1 on 1st so I was over in the 2nd base position. Host team just happens to be the team on defense, also occupying 3rd dugout. So 90 % of spectators are cheering for you know who.
R1 takes off to steel 2nd but F2 has a wicked arm and throws to F6 who is covering 2nd. She has received the ball about 6" above the groundabout a step towards 1st right on the base path. Ball arrived just as R1 was just starting to go into her slide so you can imagine how much time there was.
Problem was as F6 held her glove expexting R1 to slide into it, R1 slid towards outfeild side of bag so as she went by the glove I was in perfect place to see that there was about 2" between glove and R1. I'm still waiting for tag.:o I come up selling SAFE. In fact I over sold it, pulled a little muscle in shoulder but that's a different story. Out comes both DCs but my base partner intercepted one for me, but the head coach came straight at me. I let him have his say then I calmly stated she missed the tag.
"There was no tag coach." WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO TAG. Coach she didnot tag her, I was in perfect position to see. WELL WHY DON"T YOU ASK FOR HELP. Coach I saw the ply and I'm 100% positive that there was no tag.
This went on for a few minutes so I finally had to tell that enough etc.
So off he struts back to his 3rd base dugout and somehow I knew it was not over. And of course the crowd is just going bonkers.
Well next half inning guess who is coaching 3rd, and up till then he stuck to the bench. Just as the pitcher was finish her warm ups and we break from our holding positions I start hearing this low mumble about calls, asking for help, judgement. all low so I ignore it. Well as the inning went on, it got louder and he ejected himself. I just directed which gate he should use. Of course I heard it from the crowd the remainder of the game, we even had to have minor assistance to get to the golf cart that was driving us back & forth from the dressing room to the diamonds.
And you're right, F6 never said a word.

Is the right call is always the correct call? Are you really sure of what you saw? Maybe you should work on that....

I've been there THIS year...screwing up a HS play off game with the correct IP call, that was the wrong call, and getting led off the field. Correct call... but the wrong call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 539638)

That's the way I was taught ...

Oh no it wasn't. Guaranteed Tim and I didn't teach that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 539638)

It's in the book that way too.

What page is that mechanic on?

I have absolutely no problem with the MECHANIC (not a signal) of pointing to the play, announcing what you saw and then making the appropriate call with corresponding signal.

However, if you are going to raise both arms and make a sweeping motion away from the play, IMO, you should be on a football field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRW (Post 539688)

Oh no it wasn't. Guaranteed Tim and I didn't teach that one. What page is that mechanic on?

Not only did you both teach me that one, Randy gave me a suggestion to use it more in mechanics practice at the gym with both of you watching.

As for where it is, I don't have my 08 rulebook within reach, but it's on page 233 in the 07 book.

To be clear though, Mick's second signal is not a correct mechanic. Only the first one which is the one you taught. Though I don't imagine it'd cause any actual confusion were I to use it, I suppose I'll have to focus on clearing it out of my repertoire.