Dropped 3RD - NFHS

[whiskers_ump]

One out, R1 on 1B, Batter strikes out and takes off running,
when catcher drops 3rd strike. R1 seeing BR running towards 1B
takes off for 2B. F2's throw goes to right field. F9 grabs
the ball and fires to F4 when she sees BR now headed
that way [2B], R1 going into 3rd. BR is already out.
Do you have interference and can you get an out on R1
since BR drew the throw instead of F9 going to 3rd with the throw?
Are is this just a case of DC causing problems?

glen



[Edited by whiskers_ump on Apr 28th, 2002 at 09:09 PM]

[oppool]

I've been quiet for a while so I thought I would throw my .02 in before the real experts answer. So here our my thoughts

The 1st throw from the catcher to F3 a no-no on the catcher she should of been aware of the situation or maybe she was just trying to catch R1 off the bag BUT when the batter continued to run past 1st base and drew a throw at 2nd base then I would have the intentional interference and since the batter is already out then you would have to rule R1 out on the play. Just a couple more thoughts: The 1st base coach of the offensive team should of stopped the Batter from continue running as he should of known the situation and Intentional interference can be a runner continue running to draw a throw after they have been put out. The PU should of been more vocal and made sure everybody heard the Batter was out when 1st was occupied and less than 2 outs BUT if nobody listens than I would have to rule the interference.

JMO

Don

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oppool
I've been quiet for a while so I thought I would throw my .02 in before the real experts answer. So here our my thoughts

The 1st throw from the catcher to F3 a no-no on the catcher she should of been aware of the situation or maybe she was just trying to catch R1 off the bag BUT when the batter continued to run past 1st base and drew a throw at 2nd base then I would have the intentional interference and since the batter is already out then you would have to rule R1 out on the play. Just a couple more thoughts: The 1st base coach of the offensive team should of stopped the Batter from continue running as he should of known the situation and Intentional interference can be a runner continue running to draw a throw after they have been put out. The PU should of been more vocal and made sure everybody heard the Batter was out when 1st was occupied and less than 2 outs BUT if nobody listens than I would have to rule the interference.

JMO

Don

I'll stand with Don on this one. He makes some valid points. However, there is something I've noticed in all of the discussions concerning a dropped third strike. Everyone always seems to be critical of the PU for not being more vocal and/or authoritive with his/her call.

Speaking from experience, when something happens everyone becomes an umpire or coach. The offense screams at their runners, the defense screams at their fielders, the fans just scream and not a damn soul pays attention to the umpire or what s/he has to say. I don't care if you are talking about JO, HS, NCAA or adult ball, it's all the same.

I am a vocal umpire. When I call "DEAD BALL" there is no excuse for someone not to hear me. The only problem is that everyone is too busy listening to themselves. I do make the call and then repeat it if necessary. If the runners continue running and the fielders continue throwing the ball all over the place, I sure as hell am not going to run around the bases tackling runners to make the stop.

I get players telling me the I have to make that call and I usually inform them that if their coaches would remove their mellons from a certain part of their anatomy, they might be able to hear the call.

[bluezebra]

Mike makes a very valid point. The catcher should know the situation, as should the batter. On a missed third strike, with 1B occupied and less than two outs, I always shouted, "BATTER'S OUT! BATTER's OUT!". Sometimes the catcher and/or the batter got the message, sometimes not. There is no way, unless F2 were stone deaf, that I wasn't heard. If she/he still threw, tough.

As to shouting, "DEAD BALL! DEAD BALL!", charging out from behind the plate waving my arms, I've had runners continue circling the bases, and fielders throwing the ball all over the place. Not only in youth ball, but with adults as well. And all this time the fans are screaming to "run", or "throw the ball". Coaches are doing the same, and waving their arms.

It's like everyone zones out, and enters another dimension.

Bob

[Dakota]

The ASA rule book gives the BR a free pass to run on a D3K to 1B. After that, if she continues to run, she may be judged to be interfering by drawing a throw. Notice, however, that ASA 8-8P says "A runner continuing to run and drawning a throw may be considered a form of interference. It does not say must. Nonetheless, the throw to 1B is a DC, but the BR continuing to run to 2B is a DR, and I'd rule interference.

NFHS - 2001, anyway - is at best vague on the issue. Unless I have missed it, the NFHS book does not even mention a retired runner drawing a throw. It does have a vague statement, If a retired runner interferes and, in the judgment of the umpire, another runner could have been put out.... (8-4-2h N1 - WOW - I love those NFHS rule citations!) I'm not trained in FED; and I only have the 2001 book (in all it's confusing organizational glory) to go by, but for NFHS it would seem to be even more of a judgment call than for ASA. At least ASA gives you a rule to hang your call on.

I'd probably still rule interference, though.

[Edited by Dakota on Apr 29th, 2002 at 09:51 AM]

[refjef40]

Just wanted to bring this up since it just happened to me.J.V. ball so runner on first one out and dropped third strike.I make a mistake by forgetting to loudly annouce batter out.Of course the runner was off on the pitch the batter runner takes off and the ball is thrown into right with the runners now at third and second.Of course a loud annoucement would save all the nonsense but is the runner at second out and all play stands after that correct?Also I apoligized to both coaches which got expected mixed reactions.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by refjef40
Just wanted to bring this up since it just happened to me.J.V. ball so runner on first one out and dropped third strike.I make a mistake by forgetting to loudly annouce batter out.Of course the runner was off on the pitch the batter runner takes off and the ball is thrown into right with the runners now at third and second.Of course a loud annoucement would save all the nonsense but is the runner at second out and all play stands after that correct?Also I apoligized to both coaches which got expected mixed reactions.

refjef40,

Yes the runner now standing on or near 2B is out...Know this
was not part of your question, but since she did not draw a
second throw [first throw by F2 just DC play] by continuing
on no interference.

{See Dakota's post just prior to yours.}.

glen

[Dakota]

Originally posted by refjef40
...I make a mistake by forgetting to loudly annouce batter out....Also I apoligized to both coaches which got expected mixed reactions.

You were not obligated to announce batter out after calling strike three.

It is just good game management to prevent chaos, to remind the batter-(runner) and the F2 as to the game situation.

However, the players are required to know the game situation regardless, so your apology was unnecessary, IMO.