HR

JO · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 20, 2002, 07:50pm

I have been having a discussion about what is a HR and what is a GRD. Here goes: NFHS says:

1. HR is "...the ball must clear the fence in flight."

2. . Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition "clear" vt #7: "to go over , under, or by without touching." "Without Touching" is the key point of this definition of clear.

3. If an untouched fly ball hits the top of a HR fence and bounces beyond the fence into dead ball area -- Is this a HR or a GRD?

4. We know that as softball umpires we sometimes have fences and other times we have lines that designate live ball or dead ball area and sometimes a line for the HR. Let's say we have a line for designating HR. A fly ball hits the HR line and then bounds beyond the line into dead ball area -- what would you call? (Remember NFHS definition says; an untouched fly ball that "clears" the fence OR in this case would have to "clear" the HR line.)

5. Now, I take that same field with the HR line and decide to install a HR fence. When I construct my fence, it is my belief that all I have done is raised the HR line from the ground to top of the fence. Therefore when an untouched fly ball hits the top of the fence, this would be the same as hitting a boundary line on the ground. Below are two of my beliefs about a ball hitting the top of a HR fence:

A. the ball did NOT "clear" the fence, therefore
NO HR.

B. the ball hit a "line" separating live ball from
dead ball area, therefore a two base award.

What are your thoughts? - JO

Steve M · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 20, 2002, 08:08pm

That's a homerun and I have to think it's that way regardless of what set of rules you choose to use. What a dictionary sez about the definition of "clear" is not relevant to softball, baseball, or any other game involving rules and interpretations.

Steve M

IRISHMAFIA · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 20, 2002, 08:35pm

Until Merriam or Webster become members of the NFHS national staff, I really don't care what they have to say.

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 21, 2002, 01:09am

Welcome to the board, JO.

Don't let these GOV's (grizzled old veterans) scare you off.

They're really pretty good guys, and they know their stuff.

Del-Blue · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 22, 2002, 05:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by JO
I have been having a discussion about what is a HR and what is a GRD. Here goes: NFHS says:

1. HR is "...the ball must clear the fence in flight."

2. . Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition "clear" vt #7: "to go over , under, or by without touching." "Without Touching" is the key point of this definition of clear.

3. If an untouched fly ball hits the top of a HR fence and bounces beyond the fence into dead ball area -- Is this a HR or a GRD?

4. We know that as softball umpires we sometimes have fences and other times we have lines that designate live ball or dead ball area and sometimes a line for the HR. Let's say we have a line for designating HR. A fly ball hits the HR line and then bounds beyond the line into dead ball area -- what would you call? (Remember NFHS definition says; an untouched fly ball that "clears" the fence OR in this case would have to "clear" the HR line.)

5. Now, I take that same field with the HR line and decide to install a HR fence. When I construct my fence, it is my belief that all I have done is raised the HR line from the ground to top of the fence. Therefore when an untouched fly ball hits the top of the fence, this would be the same as hitting a boundary line on the ground. Below are two of my beliefs about a ball hitting the top of a HR fence:

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Now lets disect #5. If you have a line, which personally I have never seen on a field, and you make that a HR line. You have a ball that hits the line. By your admission, you consider that NOT a HR. If you now install a fence and all you do is raise the line from the field up in the air some 6-feet you are saying that same ball hit the top of the fence it would be the same as hitting the line. That my friend would be impossible. A ball that hits the top of a 6-8 foot fence would land at least 6 feet beyond that line where the fence comes out of the ground. Therefore, if the ball hits the top of the fence and goes directly over it is a HOME RUN. It is that simple.

A. the ball did NOT "clear" the fence, therefore
NO HR.

B. the ball hit a "line" separating live ball from
dead ball area, therefore a two base award.

What are your thoughts? - JO

whiskers_ump · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 22, 2002, 05:59am

JO,

As Dakota said Welcome aboard
I know you were discussing NFHS, but gotta believe that
ruling would be same as ASA's POE #25 and POE #26.

kono · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 22, 2002, 08:54am

JO -

Check your books for the definition of the fair territory. Most that I have seen describe it as being "...from the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards."

This is universally accepted to mean the plane of the fence. Therefore if it hits the top of the fence (without touching the front face), it is considered a homerun.

Furthermore - unless you go out and can clearly see where the ball hits - let the ball tell you where it hit. If it bounces back toward the playing field - it hit the front face (no HR). If it bounces out of the field - it hit the top of the fence - HR.

Hope this helps

-KONO