Engaging the peanut gallery?

[Stat-Man]

This has nothing to do with our SP team. Although we did finish the regular season 10-2 and we are waiting to see if we will be the #1 or #2 seed for playoffs.

There is a HS softball coach in my area who is also coaching a 16U summer team. (To say he is eccentric would be a mild understatement, but I won't go into all that.)

Tonight I noticed on his web site that he had a copy of an e-mail he sent to the summer league asking rule questions and expressing frustration about some administrative issues.

But the one thingI'm curious about is the part where he mentioned that there were what he felt were inconsistent calls regarding the safety base and the strike zone. Apparently, the league has a rule that fans are pretty much supposed to cheer and be positive or risk being asked to leave or worse, depending on what they do. He took issue with the umpire refusing to answer a parent's question about rules/calls. (My take is he is frustrated since his team went 0-10 in a league made up mostly of area powerhouse summer teams )

Maybe it's just me, but if I was an umpire, I sure wouldn't want a fan to approach me at all, since we have no idea in today's time if they will try to assult you or worse.

Granted, I wasn't there, but if I was the umpire, I'd be wanting ot get the heck out of dodge after the game. And on the odd chance a parent did ask me a question, I probably would "cut them off" (as he put it), but try to be as polite as possible that I don't discuss calls witht he general public and then try to get out of there ASAP.


Ironically enough, he claims he didn't have the list of local rules the league uses, even though they are part of the coach's packet that the coach receives or downloads when registering a team in this league. If he bothered to read that, he'd see what the expectations are regarding fan behavior.

I guess my question is would anyone _even_ consider answering a fan's post-game questions? (It's ok to say "H--l no!" ) Me, I doubt it, just because of all the nasty incidents that happen when a team or its fans feel they have somehow been wronged by the official(s).

[NDblue]

For me, it all depends on how I'm approached by a fan/spectator asking a question. If all they are doing is asking a question about a rule, why not answer them? You may find that the more a fan/spectator knows about the game and it's rules, the less likely they are to give you or your fellow umpires a hard time.

[NCASAUmp]

Ehhhhh... It depends. If it's someone I've seen a dozen times, and I've gotten the impression that they're reasonable people, then I might answer their question. Otherwise, hell no! You're nuts to address the peanut gallery.

Sounds like this coach is just "one of those." His complaints have NOTHING to do with rules, only a gripe about "consistency." It's an easy insult to throw at an umpire, and it's almost indefensible. Kind of like getting called a racist - it's hard to "prove the negative" and show that you're NOT that way.

And for the record, the safety base is an appeal play. It's the defense that has to ask for the call to be made, and I RARELY see it in a rec league. Maybe once a year do I actually get asked, if that.

[wadeintothem]

Depends.. I'm usually there all day and typically end up answering questions often for many people, including umps, fans, and coaches during the course of a season. It really is a situational thing. There are definitely times when it is not going to be discussed with a fan... especially if a coach is sniveling about a rule/ruling and a fan interjects.

[7in60]

If a fan has a legitimate question or is ignorant, I will dignify their remarks. Thursday night in a small-town rec league, a batter popped up the ball a couple feet down the first baseline. It fell between the catcher and pitcher, bounced off the catcher's glove (so I signaled fair) then hit the runner in the heel. She made it to first and I heard a fan say "how is that not interference?" After I called time I explained that it hit a defensive player first, and the runner didn't intentionally youch the ball (nevermind that it would be obstruction).

Later, I called an IF on a ball 6" onto the grass at 2nd. 2B was backing up slowly and it went off her glove and into the OF. I heard someone say "it wasn't in the infield!" so I turned around and said "it could have been caught by an infielder, it hit her glove". My hope is that they remember the rule the next time and avoid the noise pollution.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

For me, it all depends on how I'm approached by a fan/spectator asking a question. If all they are doing is asking a question about a rule, why not answer them? You may find that the more a fan/spectator knows about the game and it's rules, the less likely they are to give you or your fellow umpires a hard time.

And half the time you do not get the entire scenario from a fan about a play and all of a sudden this friendly fan is in the stands proudly announcing, "The blue over there said this umpire was completely wrong" yada, yada, yada.

Fans and a fair amount of coaches are not familiar with the rule book which is why I am a proponent of keeping the rule book off the field. Too often a coach will try to show you a rule that plays to his belief only to have never turned the page and see the "exception" to that rule. Or they read a rule that pertains to certain situations and they want to read it as a general rule.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And for the record, the safety base is an appeal play. It's the defense that has to ask for the call to be made, and I RARELY see it in a rec league. Maybe once a year do I actually get asked, if that.

What is the issue here - offensive player steps only on the white bag on a play at first (and not to avoid a collision)?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by 7in60

What is the issue here - offensive player steps only on the white bag on a play at first (and not to avoid a collision)?

The BR not touching the orange base on a play at 1B, yes.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Sounds like this coach is just "one of those." His complaints have NOTHING to do with rules, only a gripe about "consistency." It's an easy insult to throw at an umpire, and it's almost indefensible. Kind of like getting called a racist - it's hard to "prove the negative" and show that you're NOT that way.

And for the record, the safety base is an appeal play. It's the defense that has to ask for the call to be made, and I RARELY see it in a rec league. Maybe once a year do I actually get asked, if that.

NCASAUmp:

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I checked the league standings and saw this coach's team went 0-10, partly from being in a division with the best area travel teams, and partly because this guy subscribes to the "If you can't beat em, confuse the heck out of em" philosophy. He actually whined about being in a division that he wasn't competitive in, but it made me wonder if he even bothered to look at the league information in his application packet or attend the mandatory coach's meeting.

After re-reading the posts today, I could concede that maybe if a fan politely posed rule question, I might be inclined to answer (since even now, I personally do try to educate people who don't know a rule or want to know), but if I had the feeling things were going to get ugly fast, I'd be skedaddling out of there ASAP.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

NCASAUmp:

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I checked the league standings and saw this coach's team went 0-10, partly from being in a division with the best area travel teams, and partly because this guy subscribes to the "If you can't beat em, confuse the heck out of em" philosophy. He actually whined about being in a division that he wasn't competitive in, but it made me wonder if he even bothered to look at the league information in his application packet or attend the mandatory coach's meeting.

After re-reading the posts today, I could concede that maybe if a fan politely posed rule question, I might be inclined to answer (since even now, I personally do try to educate people who don't know a rule or want to know), but if I had the feeling things were going to get ugly fast, I'd be skedaddling out of there ASAP.

Well, that's the problem with some people: explaining one rule in one situation bring up questions about a million other situations. Once you start down that rabbit-hole, there's really no getting out, Alice.

[bigsig]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And half the time you do not get the entire scenario from a fan about a play and all of a sudden this friendly fan is in the stands proudly announcing, "The blue over there said this umpire was completely wrong" yada, yada, yada.

Fans and a fair amount of coaches are not familiar with the rule book which is why I am a proponent of keeping the rule book off the field. Too often a coach will try to show you a rule that plays to his belief only to have never turned the page and see the "exception" to that rule. Or they read a rule that pertains to certain situations and they want to read it as a general rule.

I’m with Irish. Most of the time it’s a set up and they really just want to argue a call with you. We have a Varsity coach who is famous for asking new umpires to “explain a rule to his player…” when he’s really testing you.
Even on the sidelines at a tourney it’s a bad idea. I ruled a BR out for unreported sub in an ASA tourney. An assistant coach came onto the field to tell me I was wrong. He asked the “head umpire” (who turned out to be our assignor, not our UIC) while he was standing watching another game a hypothetical.

I say, be polite but walk away.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

The BR not touching the orange base on a play at 1B, yes.

Helpful reminder.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by 7in60

Helpful reminder.

Only reason I phrased it that was was to remind the OP that it's not whether or not the white bag was touched, but whether or not the orange bag was touched. That is, as it relates to an appeal.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Poosey

Do it all the time.

Figgers.

Unless this is someone I know well, I'll try to politely disengage.
If I need to be less than polite, OK, I've had a time or 2 in my life when I've been less than polite.