Never saw this before....
 

Had the pleasure of working a championship game with a umpire whom IMHO has seen it all and done it all and I respect greatly... so long story short, I am in C, he has plate... 2 strikes on the batter, pitch comes in and is fouled directly back to the catcher whom doesn't touch it except for the fact she catches it in flight with her knees. PU calls it foul... light chirping from the defensive dugout. He sells it (I close my gaping mouth "I was amazed that she actually caught it like that) and we proceed to finish the game. Now the confusing part...
Walking out we meet up with the UIC, PU says to UIC "I think i kicked that foul ball /foul tip call" he agrees... I chime in "I never saw that before" mouth still gaping.
Ok, so 4 days later i think back on it,( I am at dinner with 2 coaches who both think the batter is out on foul tip strike 3) then I goto work and ask a coach here and he has her out on foul tip strike 3.(I have way too many coaches in my personal life :D ) 3 coaches thinking opposite of me? I wasn't gonna have it. So... I look in rulebooks/case books for FED, PONY, OBR (I need to buy a ASA book) both baseball and softball. And as far as i can tell he got it right at the plate. Foul tip must go directly and sharply to the catchers mitt. Is this correct or did I miss something just to be right.

I think there is a hand in there. Sharply and directly to the hand or glove and be controlled. Other than that no you got it right. Now what I would question is if that was a caught foul ball. Since it didn't go sharply and directly to the glove it can't be a foul tip.....but it could be a foul ball. And if she didn't catch it in her equipment and got control prior to it reaching the ground could it be a controlled catch?

ASA - Because it didn't go directly to the glove or hand, it can't be a foul tip. Since she caught it between her knees, then grabbed the ball and had it controlled before it ever got to the ground, well... I hate to say it, but that sounds like it can only be a foul ball that was caught. I have an out.

You could have fifty coaches tell you this is a foul tip...and they would all still be wrong!

The umpire had it right on his first call. No need to second guess himself here- this is a simple foul ball.

Did she pick up the ball from between her knees before it touched the ground? I was assuming she did. If so, caught foul ball. If she let it drop, just a foul ball.

NCASAUmp, it cannot be a catch (caught foul ball) if it went sharp and direct back toward the catcher. Sharp and direct to the catcher can be a foul tip (if it goes to the hand or mitt first) or a foul ball, but not a catch for an out.

CajunNewBlue, whom taught you grammar?

All I have on this is a foul tip "foul ball." It does not meet the requirements to be a foul tip strike nor does it meet the requirements of a foul fly ball for an out. Unless I'm missing something here, which has happened before.

Ah... I had a different image in my mind. You're right. :)

I think you just have a foul ball.

Now, I ask, what is this purpose of the defined foul tip except to allow a runner to attempt an advance without re-touching after the catch?
The play seems to me to be a caught foul ball, by all definitions, eventhough it is not a foul tip.

The play seems to me to be a caught foul ball, by all definitions, even though it is not a foul tip.

Think about it. Batter swings and there's an audible "tick" but no perceptible deflection or slowing of the ball. The ball travels straight back to the catcher's chest protector and bounces off. The catcher then grabs the ball in the air with his bare hand and secures it.

How can this be anything other than merely a foul ball?

RS 22..not a catch if the ball rebounds off the cather, unless first touched by the cather's glove/mitt/hand. Must be a "perceptible arc" to be able to be determined as a caught foul ball.

In NSA, clearly a foul ball (no catch).

"A batted ball that travels directly from the bat not higher than the batter's head to any part of the catcher's body or equipment other than the hand(s) or glove/mit is a foul ball is dead and is not a foul tip"

Furthermore............

"A batted ball that goes higher than the batter's head is a foul ball. It is not a foul tip. If legally caught, the batter is out."

NSA often leaves gray areas gray, but I think this one is pretty clearly spelled out.

By the way - For those wanting a catch out - Think of this....... You are saying that with less than 2 strikes, a tipped ball back to the catcher that is cought by the glove is only a strike, but if cought by the body, we have an out. Not logical.

Okay! Thanks. I don't get out much. :cool:

PU's call was right, foul ball. This can't be a foul tip because it did not go directly to the catcher's mitt/hand; it went to the catcher's equipment (assuming she had shin guards over her knees).

Guys, this is a foul ball by rule. ASA 1-FOUL BALL-G; NFHS 2-25-1-g; all others somewhere, I'm sure.

OK, I am the quilty umpire that had the play. Have looked it up, and now
believe that I got the call correct.

This was an excellent game [ending up 1-0 in favor of the team that was on
defense during the questionable play.] I certainly did not want it to effect
the game in any way. Being behind the play, all I saw was catcher take the
ball from her knees. Coach never asked me to get help, [probably should
have on my own, but did not]

Besides NSA, which rules care about "higher than the batter's head"?

Actually, ASA's definition of Foul Ball does not support a foul ball ruling. However, as previously cited, RS #22 does.

You mean their goofy grammar? ("another" fielder)?

our rule book up here north of the border has that wording.

That's not goofy, but quite meaningful. It avoids the argument of a ball coming off the catcher's glove and being caught by another fielder for a "foul tip" or an out.

Glen did a great job calling this game.... and got a call right even though he temporarily thought he might have missed it... (experience pays off always!!)... but I am a little surprised that so many different opinions on this type of call exist here on this forum and with the people i have talked to about this around here. of course it didnt get as many replies as one guys "what color ball bag should i wear?" topic :D

BTW: whats wrong with my grammar?.... ohhh thats right im a cajun we cant even spell grammar. lol

DSI - Dixie softball

Does NSA, or any another "higher than the batter's head" code, claim that a ball that does not travel higher than the batter's head must be a foul tip? (Answer: No. The phrase is in no way a defining element.)

ASA removed the wording out of recognition that a ball could be lower than the batter's head and not be foul tip, and also that a ball could be higher than the batter's head and still be a foul tip.

Therefore, the phrase was useless and served merely to confuse.

Here is a link to Cactus Umpires which discusses foul tip / foul ball.
http://www.cactusumpires.com/pages/s.../foul-tip.html

Which is based on NFHS rules and interpretation.