Was I right?
 

Greetings,

I am a HS JV coach, but I used to umpire some JV games back in the day. Last weekend I got a call asking me to fill in for a few games as an umpire. I agreed, and for the most part had a great time.

I have a question about a situation that occurred in one of my games. I was the BU. R1 was on first with no outs. A ground ball was hit to the left of the 2b, which took her (and me) to first base for the out. R1 rounded 2nd and headed for 3rd. PU went to 3rd, and I drifted towards the plate in case of an overthrow. Sure enough, there was an overthrow and the runner came home. I was right there and made the call on a bang-bang play at the plate.

My partner and I thought we had handled this correctly, but I was later told by one of the other umpires that if we ever worked together, that I was NEVER to come home when he was behind the plate because it was his call all the way. He then went into great detail about his 46 years of experience.

IMO, my partner and I hustled, communicated, and got the call right. As a coach, I read and respect the opinions on this board. I just want to know if I was in the right place on this play.

I think you did fine!
 

I don't believe that is a prescribed mechanic for 2 man, but I don't have a problem with the mechanic per se. I know in the ASA manual it says that the mechanics are a starting point and I believe that they should be followed most of the time. However, it also says that if you deviate communicate. This is a perfect example where you communicated and got the call right. There are times when the normal mechanics break down and we have to deviate. There are times when we deviate out of convenience. As long as you communicate before hand I don't have a problem with it. For example, when I'm doing 4 SP games a night, and a fly ball takes me down third base line, I'll call off the BU from taking the trail runner to third since I'm already there. If you do that enough during a game it just might save his legs for when I need him at 3rd.

The other umpire was correct. Third base and home are both the plate umpires calls. If there was a play at third, (sounds like there was) the plate umpire should have gotten inside for a call at third. When the overthrow occurred your partner should have stayed inside and gone home for the call. rwest is also correct in that if you deviate from prescribed mechanics you communicate. If the play was covered well and you communicated this change could work.

Agree that by the book you were wrong.

However if you pre-game this, communicate it when it happens, and there are for sure no trailing runners then you can make it work. There are times you can deviate from the manual but it has to be done very carefully and all have to know it is happening.

My only problem...
 

with this is what happens if now you have a snap throw behind the runner at 1st base? Who covers that? BU at the plate and PU at 3rd?

Bold above is by me. There is no runner at first to snap throw back at since they were out!! Agreed if there was a runner there then BU should be taking care of them, not going home. But in this case why not help out, as long as you communicate since it is a deviation from the prescribed mechanics.

Exactly
 

The last thing you want is for the PU to come home and have a different call than the BU who is now covering home.

Its a good mechanic but pre-game it. It's not enough to just yell out to your partner, "I got home". He needs to know that you will do this when the circumstances allow for it before the game begins.

In my opinion, what you and your partner did on that play was marvelous!

• You got trapped, but stayed with the initial play.
• Partner got a jump on the anticipated play at 3B.
• You got a jump on the anticipated play at home.

I love it! Great job!!

damn, I feel stupid
 

I never saw the "out"...since the out was made at 1st then you did perfect.

We are told repeatedly that the BU never covers home in the two-ump system.

From past experiences where this specific mechanic was taught locally for years, the partner becomes comfortable with it and depends on it. Then when the partner couldn't get there, oops!

Then you have the issue of R1 reversing his/her direction and heading back to 2B? Who has that call if a play is made.

If the PU follows the proper mechanics for a call at 3B, s/he is in perfect position to bring the runner home, no real reason for anyone else to be there.

Item: If R1 reverses, I think BU is still on right side of mound watching for that problem before committing to home.

Item: If the overthrow beats R1 to 3B, then R1 may have hit 3B on the dead run and could well be 20'-30' ahead of a reversing PU.

Just sayin'. :)

I didn't know we were talking about Olympic sprinters. The PU would be 10 - 15' toward home to begin with and can react just as quickly as the runner and only has 40' feet to go, not 60'. Not picking on Mick, but we seem to often get into this on coverage questions and talk as if the umpire has to be exactly even with the bases.

I understand that stuff, Cecil.
I also understand that a decent runner can cover that 15' headstart in 0.5 second if he hits the bag at full bore [and without shins and plate shoes, too]. ;)

You may love it, it may even make sense....

In ASA, it is not the prescribed robotic nor allowed mechanic in 2 Man EVER.

3 man yes, 2 man no.

Ever? Whew! That's a long time !

I don't have anything current with regard to softball mechanics, but are you saying that BU covering home is disallowed, or that the mechanic is not specifically allowed, like the *wipe off* ? :)

Mick, you are obviously umpiring the wrong game. What mound?

Anyone can try to justify this as much as they want. In real time, it just isn't going to happen. Once an umpire decides to head toward home, there is no way they will be able to cover 2B for anything.

Its specifically not allowed and is a point at all clinics. You simply dont do it. You need to head towards 3. If there is something at 2, thats you. If there is a run down, you can take the 3b side. You dont go home. Thats PU's.

In three man you would never rotate home from the B position either (where this umpire was at the start of the play). I think a lot of you are not realizing that this umpire was in the B position at the start of this play and had a play at first. Also had a base tag at second and return if runner came back. Too many things to do before breaking home and was outside to begin with. Too far to go to pick up play at the plate.

Thanks for your help folks.:)

Are there separate mechanics for two-woman and three-woman or mixed genders? :p ;) :D :D

And do NOT go there, umpiring comments only!

In Three Man he wouldn't be in B Slot
 

In three man with runner on 1st, the U1 would be on the 1st base line. U3 would be at 2nd-3rd base line extended. In this situation you still have the potential for rotating.

Too late... Yes, depending on the protective equipment available... :D

That's why I said from the B position. No umpire rotates home from the B position.

True
 

But I believe you are overlooking a couple of things. Since the play took the BU toward first base he was out of position to make a call at 2nd. The PU realized this and took R1 to second base. When R1 went to 3rd the PU followed her. U1 wasn't in any better position to make a call at 2nd if R1 decided to return to 2nd. PU was closer. Instead of standing there, why not have BU go home? It works in 3 man; I know the BU in the B slot would never go home, but the principle is the same. Also, remember he had no play at first after the batter-runner was retired.

I know it's not according to the mechanics and there are some very strong opinions against it. However, the mechanics manual gives us the option to deviate as long as we communicate. I also realize its frowned on by the NUS at clinics. This is the best argument against this mechanic, IMHO. However, I've not heard such strong opinions at the Advanced camps I've attended as I'm hearing on this forum. Maybe it wasn't discussed in my group. I just don't remember.

And the argument that some make that it is easy for the PU to rotate back to home on the overthrow is true, but the same can be said in 3 man.

The best argument against this mechanic is that it is not an approved mechanic and is frowned on by the NUS. Most of the other arguments against it can also be said of the 3 man mechanic.

No, the best argument is that it places an umpire out of position. That's it, end of story.

Can you deviate when an umpire gets trapped? Sure, but don't get caught with a play at a based which is uncovered.

Not in this case it doesn't
 

In limited situations in 2 man mechanics it is just as helpful as in 3 man. If the BU is not out of position when at home in 3 Man, he wont be in 2 man, in those limited scenarios. I'm not advocating that it be done as often as it is in 3 man. There are situations where obviously it can't be. But the OP is not one of them. There isn't an uncovered base. The batter-runner was retired at first base. R1 went to Third, rounded third and went home. The BU had no base responsibilities.

Modify the above situation a bit. Suppose R1 got caught in a run down between home and third and the PU was stuck at 3rd? What would you have the BU do? I think the most logical thing is for him to go home and cover that end, while the PU takes 3rd. I realize that in most run downs the PU will have home and the BU will have third. However, if you have the BU move to home you will have less movement of the umpires and all of the bases are covered. If you have the PU move home and the BU moved to third, there is a greater chance that a call will be missed because both umpires will not be in the best position to make a call until they get to the respective spots.