Does the run count?
Runners on 1st and 3rd with two outs. Ground ball to short in the hole. Flips to 2nd baseman covering the base on a bang bang play. Runner from 3rd scores. 2nd baseman drops throw from shortstop. Runner from 1st thinks he is out and starts walking to the 1st base dugout. By "retreating" does this reinstate the force out? If it does, then the run would not count.
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DMR! |
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If I'm picturing this correctly, I would say that yes, the force is reinstated as per 8-7-C. If F4 picks up the ball and touches 2B, we've got a force out, and no runs score. |
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By "retreating" towards 1st he is not removing or reinstating anything, the force at 2nd still exist. |
As I read the OP there is a bang/bang play at 2nd so the runner has touched 2nd base. So once they retreat toward 1st they have then reinstated the force on themselves.
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If F4 doesn't pick up the ball and tag the runner or base, and R2 simply walks to the dugout, do you count the run?
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Yes, it's not a force out. He's out for abandonment. If on the other hand they make a force out, then I'd disallow it. That's not a force out.
________ The Peak Towers Condominium |
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Assuming R2 touched 2nd on the play, safe on the bang bang play as F4 dropped the ball, now force is off, R1 scores from 3rd. Force is not reinstated just because R2 retreats to his/her dugout. |
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If R2 had reached 2nd safely and then abandoned afterward, no force out, run counts. If R2 had not reached 2nd safely and F4 or F6 finally made the play, then a force and no run. A force is reinstated if a safe runner leaves the base and returns toward the previous base. In the OP, that direction is implied by "first base dugout"; but I would have to judge whether R2 was headed for 1st or simply leaving. Of course, the DMR reinstating the force would negate the "run" if the defensd finally made the play. A succeeding BR/R3 would make returning to 1st very unlikely in my mind. The other Q is whether being out on abandonnment before reaching 2nd is a force out and I would say that if that happened, R2 is out before reaching a base forced to, so no run if third out. |
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No, a player can only be called out for "abandonment" if they enter DBT. That was not a given in the OP, so I cannot assumed it happened. Regardless, if the forced runner retreats, the force is reinstated. If R2 is ruled out on this play, the run does not count. |
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________ Vaporizer volcano |
Abandonment
This can't be abandonment as the runner never entered DBT. And the way I read 8.7.C. it says if the runner retreats towards the base first occupied then the force is reinstated...or words to that effect. Abondonment refers only to "entering the team area" or "leaving live ball territory".
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See Irish's answer...I agree with that and he did a much better job of stating it then I did. :) |
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