When are they out?

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok lets say we have a timing play, BR being tagged at 2nd while R1 is attempting to score with 2 outs. As BR is sliding into 2nd R1 is a step from home, hard slide BU is waiting to see the ball is still controlled....R1 touches home then BU sees control of the ball and comes up with a sell out.

So I ask when is the out an out for the timing of the run scoring? When the tag is first made....or when the BU verifies control was maintained? In this case that difference would mean a run scored or it didn't.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok lets say we have a timing play, BR being tagged at 2nd while R1 is attempting to score with 2 outs. As BR is sliding into 2nd R1 is a step from home, hard slide BU is waiting to see the ball is still controlled....R1 touches home then BU sees control of the ball and comes up with a sell out.

So I ask when is the out an out for the timing of the run scoring? When the tag is first made....or when the BU verifies control was maintained? In this case that difference would mean a run scored or it didn't.

It's when the tag is made, not when the out is called.

[DaveASA/FED]

I agree with you but how do you know? If you are PU you are watching the runner and F2 for possible OBS, trying to watch the play at 2nd some but you don't know when the tag it made, you can hear when the out is called....never thought of this before but how do you know when that happens? If BU is doing what they should they are inside on a throw from outfield watching the tag so they can't see if the runner has hit the plate yet, and PU is blocked from the tag by the BU, BR and maybe even a couple of fielders.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

I agree with you but how do you know? If you are PU you are watching the runner and F2 for possible OBS, trying to watch the play at 2nd some but you don't know when the tag it made, you can hear when the out is called....never thought of this before but how do you know when that happens? If BU is doing what they should they are inside on a throw from outfield watching the tag so they can't see if the runner has hit the plate yet, and PU is blocked from the tag by the BU, BR and maybe even a couple of fielders.

I think you are worrying too much about this. It isn't like you are a hundred yards away, the field isn't that big.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I think you are worrying too much about this. It isn't like you are a hundred yards away, the field isn't that big.

Agreed. HP to 2B is what? 91', 11"? It's not that far for us to make a reasonable judgment call.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Agreed. HP to 2B is what? 91', 11"? It's not that far for us to make a reasonable judgment call.

Only for you 65' base slow pitch people. On a 60' diamond, it's even closer.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok lets say we have a timing play, BR being tagged at 2nd while R1 is attempting to score with 2 outs. As BR is sliding into 2nd R1 is a step from home, hard slide BU is waiting to see the ball is still controlled....R1 touches home then BU sees control of the ball and comes up with a sell out.

So I ask when is the out an out for the timing of the run scoring? When the tag is first made....or when the BU verifies control was maintained? In this case that difference would mean a run scored or it didn't.

We teach our umpires to yell "TAG" in the case of a potential timing play, then follow through with normal timing of finding the ball and selling the "OUT" call. That helps the PU determine the run counts or run doesn't count question. (Of course, if the BU calls "TAG ... SAFE," the run scores even if the tag was prior to touching the plate.)

[DaveASA/FED]

Well that has it's advantages in this case....but I don't like that mechanic as it has the possibility of making the BR think they are out. I could see the BR starting to get up thinking they are out and the fielder picking up the ball and tagging them in the confusion, before you could get safe out after seeing the dropped ball. I have always seen (or heard) "tag" followed by out, almost a clarification of why they are out, this would be the only downside I see to what you are suggesting. And that would be confusing....you would hear "tag" (see dropped ball) "Safe" (Fielder tags runner off bag, who thought they were already out) "Out". thats almost a triple call isn't it??