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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 02:04pm
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I saw a play this weekend at the college level where B1 smacks the ball hard to left center... F8 takes the ball as it bounces off the fence and fires it to F6. F6 catches the throw and turns in just in time to get run over by B1. Both go tumbling....
Soooo... I wondered, as F6 gets up with the ball still in her glove... Will B1 be out for interference..... Or will B1 be out on the tag (Since they tumbled together for several revolutions, surely she was tagged somewhere in there)..... Well as it turned out, no out was called and B1 was given 3rd base.... What did I miss?
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Chuck Lewis Ronan, MT Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he could be gone every weekend. 
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 02:23pm
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Kinda sounds like a HBT
My guess is the ump ruled obstruction on the play BUT the way is sounds from your wording probably should have been a no-call "wreck" if runner was tagged I have the "OUT"
Don
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 02:40pm
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Good question
I assume from your description that F6 was standing somewhere between 2B and 3B when the collision occurred, not, for example, right on 2B awaiting the runner, where you'd probably call a crash. It's entirely possible that there was no tag. I've seen many fielders, even though they have the ball, fail to tag runners who collide with them.
How they gave the runner 3B I can't imagine. It's not obstruction, because F6 had the ball. Was F6 moving around in the baseline, obstructing the runner while anticipating the throw? Once I had F6 field a ground ball only to be collided with immediately by the runner from 2B. There was no tag, though, and it wasn't a deliberate crash--it all happened so quickly. And F6 was not nearly in the act of throwing the ball. I was going to let it go, but the players and coaches sort of called the play for me. After the players tumbled to the ground, the runner just sat there, asking the fielder, who was mildly shaken, if she was OK. Then the coaches came out to assess any injuries, and the runner trotted to her bench. I haven't said, "Out," yet, but since everybody in the park apparently thought there was an out, I let it stand. I guess if they get tangled in each other, it's safe to call an out on a play like that, since there always might have been a tag in there somewhere. However, it would be nice to know what the right call is: infielder fields ball and is unintentionally collided with a split-second later. What if the impact knocks the ball loose? I asked this question at a clinic a few years ago and got a hedging answer. Maybe it is indeed a "no-call wreck"!
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 03:12pm
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Re: Good question
Quote:
The fielder who is fielding a batted ball is protected during the act of fielding, and the throw immediately folowing the fielding of the ball. That is all one play. I don't have all my resources here at work, but I'm sure that is the inteprertation for all codes. In your sitch, if R2 runs over F6 as she atttempts to field a batted ball and throw the runner out at first, F6 is protected from contact for the catch of the batted ball and the throw to first. Roger Greene
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 03:33pm
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Roger: All softball codes I can believe, but if you were including baseball, I've seen that play more than once in OBR (Majors), and it has been no call. Best example I can think of was about 10 years ago when an Indians runner from 1B creamed the Angels' F4 a moment after he caught a ground ball. No tag, F4 recovered, got up, and made the play at first, and the runner who ran F4 over was safe at 2B. No argument, either.
Maybe things have changed since then. The NJ interpreter is supposed to be at our Fed meeting tonight. If I get a chance, I'll see what he has to say.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 03:56pm
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Re: Re: Good question
Quote:
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 04:46pm
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Dakota,
Are you saying that the runner is allowed to make contact and or intefer with a player attempting to throw out another runner? I'm saying the fielder is protected in that situation, particuly if she is fielding a batted ball immediately preceeding the throw. Roger Greene
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 05:00pm
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Greymule,
As for baseball I'll quote from the NAPBL setion 4.1, paragraph 2. "Note that under the Official Rules, a fielder is protected while he is in the act of fielding a batted ball. In addition, note that a fielder is also protected while he is in the act of making a play after he has fielded a batted ball. If a runner hinders or impedes a fielder after he has fielded a batted ball but before he is able to throw the ball, the runner shall be called out for interference. Furthermore, a runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not." Seems pretty clear. Roger Greene
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 05:44pm
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Quote:
1) F8 fielded and threw the batted ball. 2) F6 is attempting to catch a thrown ball. Your baseball rule cites are talking about F8 in this play, not F6. 3) The rest is HTBT. If the runner and ball arrive at the same time, then it is just a collision (ASA POE 31). For it to be interference, the umpire would have to judge that the ball arrived before the runner. I can't see any scenario where it would be obstruction, so if the runner is to get to 3B, she'll have to do it on her own. [Edited by Dakota on Mar 18th, 2002 at 04:47 PM]
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 05:51pm
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Dakota,
We are talking different situations. Greymule was questioning a sitch in which F6 fielded a BATTED ground ball, and then was run over by R2, and indicated that if she had completed fielding the ball her protection was over. This was added in the middle of the thread. Roger Greene
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 05:53pm
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Greymule,
Gerry Davis Sports has the NAPBL. http://www.gerrydavis.com. A PBUC is next on my wish list. I'm not sure where to get that. Roger Greene
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 09:31pm
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Quote:
In the play in this thread, this is simply a crash unless the runner was obstructed in another manner.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 09:39pm
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Thanks for the link, Roger. I will get the book. As regards the runner interfering on a batted ball, the NJ interpreter says, "Interferes with the play," that is, whether the ball is on the way to the fielder, or the fielder has fielded the ball, or the fielder is throwing the ball." So you're correct.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Mon Mar 18, 2002, 09:54pm
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Quote:
 Sorry.In that case, I agree with you, baseball cite & all - it'd be the same call in ASA. Interference.
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