So what would you REALLY do?

[wadeintothem]

So yesterday i go to a softball game that I knew was going on by where I work just to check it out.

There is an umpire there I have never seen before. It is low level Var and he is working solo (any decent 14Ua team would beat both of these squads). I had never seen him so I make a little talk and find out he is a baseball guy who does softball too. Of course his mechanics were BB mechanics, but thats not the point of the post. Anyway I find out he is a member of same association as me (never seen him at any clinics that I remember, but he could have slipped by). He was not dressed particluarly well.. a little flooding of the pants, white socks, and you could see the logos on his tshirt under his +pos blue shirt.

Other than his mechanics and appearance (which wasnt horrible just a little goofy), he wasnt doing too bad in terms of the game, his zone etc. And he was a very personable. The coaches were scorekeeping so I sat in the scorekeeper desk right behind the dugout and watched everything.

The point of my post is a few things that happened.

1) With R1@3B BR on Ball 4 advanced legally straight to 2B. So the defensive coach has a heart attack saying it isnt legal... the umpire said
"SHe didnt hesitate, as long as she doesnt hesitate the ball is live and she can advance".

The implication of that statement is a misunderstanding of LBR. Does he know it? I dont know. But that statement is not accurate.

2) With no outs and R's @ 1&2B, on D3K BR took off and gets to first. The defensive coach again has a heart attack, the offensive coach yells to the other coach "Both our runners were stealing, its legal"

The umpire says "She has a right to advance, the ball is live".

And he let it stand.. bases now loaded.

The rule is the same in baseball, so I'm not sure what the deal is on that one and why he would blow that one!

3) A pitcher, who was horrible, ALWAYS kept her hands together. Always. She never separated them until delivery (obviously). I wont ding him too hard here, I probably would have wanted every strike I could get out of this pitcher myself.

But at least mention it. I dont think he knew the rule. She stepped quite often as well.

4) He NEVER went into the infield on plays. He always went to the 3BL holding area. Always.

Anyway.. after the game, I went to where he was getting out of his gear and made some small talk, fully intending to let him know at least the rules things...

Then I decided not to make waves with this guy. I doubt he would have appreciated it. He didnt know me from adam and I am not of any level within my NFHS assoc. But he has some areas where he needs to crack a book.

So I just let it all go, came home last night, wrote an email to the the Assoc trainer, then deleted it, not sending it, not even posting about... and have just chewed on what is the right thing to do all day...

So what is really the right thing to do?

I think nothing, maybe just vent on here, maybe if I see him again, talk to him..dunno.

[Stu Clary]

I worked a game today with a guy that primarily works baseball. Decent enough partner...the only issues I had with him was that he wanted to go to position A with runner on 3rd base and the fact he wanted to chat me up between innings.

We talked about positioning after the game.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I worked a game today with a guy that primarily works baseball. Decent enough partner...the only issues I had with him was that he wanted to go to position A with runner on 3rd base and the fact he wanted to chat me up between innings.

We talked about positioning after the game.

Well if I was working I would have had to say something, (if only on the D3K thing which directly and immediately affected the game).. but I've never worked with him and obviously wasnt in uniform or anything. I have a little green card in my wallet ASA gives UIC's, I guess I could have flashed that at him like a secret agent and told him to open a rulebook .. but this was NFHS.

Basically, I didnt want to "get into it" with this guy... but now this umpire will keep working games and these calls are wrong.

[SRW]

Sounds like a good phone call to your UIC or Training Staff, whoever's in charge of training and evaluating umpires in your association.

I think you did the right thing by not correcting his mechanics or rules knowledge... it sounds like it's not your place to do so.

We had a deal here 2 years ago where we had off-duty umpires up in the tower watching a game from above. When the umpires got done with the game on the field, they came in to the tower to change, and were basically attacked by the off-duty umps about mechanics, rules, "you got that wrong", etc. It finally drove a bunch of good new guys away... they felt they were constantly being critiqued harshly, and never knew who was right (some times the off-duty umps were wrong!)

Anyway, our then UIC (the same guy who hates the fence timers) had to send out a broadcast policy to everyone that "bogus training" must stop immediately. He then designated a training staff and UIC staff who were the ONLY people authorized to approach an umpire about his game. However, if the working ump asked someone "how did I do" or "do you have any comments about my game" or "what did you see" - or something along those lines, that was the OK for whomever he asked to tell him. Basically, it fell back to the umpire requesting the help, not someone giving it to him unsolicited unless they were the UIC staff or training staff.

The other part of the policy is that, if an umpire saw someone working odd mechanics or improper rule application, they could go to one of the training or UIC staff and let them know what they saw... then the training or UIC staff could then make note of it and watch the guy themselves.

This way it was consistent training information related to rule interpretations and mechanics training that was being conveyed to the umpire crews, and not "bogus training" happening.

It's working... and it's stopped the vultures.

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by SRW

...if the working ump asked someone "how did I do" or "do you have any comments about my game" or "what did you see" - or something along those lines, that was the OK for whomever he asked to tell him.

I usually ask those questions after every game. Not today.

[AtlUmpSteve]

As one person responsible for training, I know that I can't reach every umpire, and that there will be some assigned that I just haven't seen. I would want to hear what you observed, either to me, or another member of our training staff.

If your association trainer doesn't want that feedback, he can hit the "delete" key, ignore it, or tell you he doesn't care what you think. If you don't tell him, however, he can't make any of those choices, or accept the information, either.

[Andy]

In our group, we have instituted some incident reports through our website.
One of those reports is for a certified umpire to report something regarding another certified umpire. Certified is the highest ranking in our association. We also have a report for a non-certified umpire to report regarding a non-certified. We don't make it out to be a witch hunt, but to make sure that all of our umpires are on the same page (hopefully) on mechanics and rule knowledge. A lofty goal, and probably unattainable, but our goal none the less. Just an idea to consider that may have been applicable in your situation.

HS Incident Reports

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Andy

In our group, we have instituted some incident reports through our website.

HS Incident Reports

I like the game fee report. We're all worth about 10 times what we are paid.

And ya gotta pay for those Phoenix Phence Timers.
http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/i...r_091005_1.gif

[BuggBob]

Your right Wade he may not have been the best umpire. But ask yourself how would you feel if some other umpire contacted your assigner or UIC about a game you did? Most guys would be defensive about any comments made from some unknown umpire who had watched the game.

I found it interestingly that you reported only one umpire for a varsity game?

Bugg

[Andy]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

I like the game fee report. We're all worth about 10 times what we are paid.

And ya gotta pay for those Phoenix Phence Timers.
http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/i...r_091005_1.gif

Allright, smart a$$.....

The game fee report is to notify the board that you did not receive your game fee prior to the game or had to chase somebody down to get it. It goes against the school.

We don't use timers for HS ball down here (with the exception of some tournaments). The state refuses to let us put a time limit on FR and JV games. Yes, I have worked the 2.5 - 3 hr FR game where nobody can throw the ball across the plate, nobody can hit or field the ball, and only a very few players can catch the ball...other than that, they were good ball games!

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Andy

In our group, we have instituted some incident reports through our website.
One of those reports is for a certified umpire to report something regarding another certified umpire. Certified is the highest ranking in our association. We also have a report for a non-certified umpire to report regarding a non-certified. We don't make it out to be a witch hunt, but to make sure that all of our umpires are on the same page (hopefully) on mechanics and rule knowledge. A lofty goal, and probably unattainable, but our goal none the less. Just an idea to consider that may have been applicable in your situation.

HS Incident Reports

Heck. I might just have to get me a kitchen timer to hang on the fence and move to Arizona. Dressing rooms? Shower facilities? Towels? Refreshments? I don't even get this at some college sites I work.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Your right Wade he may not have been the best umpire. But ask yourself how would you feel if some other umpire contacted your assigner or UIC about a game you did? Most guys would be defensive about any comments made from some unknown umpire who had watched the game.

I found it interestingly that you reported only one umpire for a varsity game?

Bugg

He was by himself.

THe level of play was worth only one umpire IMO.

[Steve M]

We don't have incident reports for high school ball in this area, but I'd sure want to hear about a game like this one. For college ball, I'm not involved in training, so I would not hear about it - but somebody sure would.