Your line up card

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Wade:

WMB is correct. You can have the card ready in under a minute, no problem. Yet, during the game it probably saves you a minute with each substitution. We always stress game management, this is just another tool to achieve that end.

"blue 12 for 25"..
Me "ok" then to Score keeper "12 for 25"
In 95% of the cases, thats how long it takes.. not sure how you can save a minute off of that.

Even the whole partner thing, if my partner asked me too read him the names off the line up card, that would be irritating.

i'm not ribbing you guys, i do think its a little extra effort you guys are willing to do.. FOR ME, I dont see the point, but it still has a slice of "attaboy" on it. I dont think there is anything wrong with it.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I just have one question... how does a person "present lineup management" in an umpire clinic without addressing the practical issues of how to do lineup management? That had to be a rather pointless consumption of time on the agenda, I would think.

I'm glad you noticed that.

It was a clusterphuck. She tried to take something that worked and turned it into something confusing that didn't work.

That particular point got the NUS a LOT of comments on the evals... hopefully they take note.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

I've been "told" that "there is no approved system for ASA or NFHS." The response was that it's up to each umpire to develop their own system that works for them. This was especially emphasized at our regional clinic by Kevin, Julie, Malcom, and especially Lori when she presented lineup management. She made a specific point of telling the group that ASA was NOT using Emily's lineup system (at this time)... so she was not teaching it specifically.

How can anyone tell you that ASA is NOT using something after you have just been told that ASA has no standard or approved method?

Sometimes you have to wonder what these people eat for breakfast to become so smart.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I just have one question... how does a person "present lineup management" in an umpire clinic without addressing the practical issues of how to do lineup management? That had to be a rather pointless consumption of time on the agenda, I would think.

Not really. Line up management is just on facit of game management. If both are coverd in a clinic, the management of the line up can be offered separately than the issues surrounding the need to properly manage a line up.

However, as I recently discovered, when doing so, it is best to have the clinician giving the line-up management stick strickly to that and allow the clinician giving game management to address the importance of the line up card.

[wadeintothem]

We didnt have anything about Line Up at NUS.

Probably the only reason it was discussed at your NUS is that system you use. Not only was it not discussed.. I've never seen it in use anywhere, and I only even heard about it on this MB the few times its been discussed.

Must be an east coast thing.

[Andy]

Being fortunate enough to live in the same city as Emily, and sitting under her mentoring and teaching for my entire softball umpiring career, I have attended her lineup management class a few times.

She schedules one evening in late February every year to strictly discuss lineups and lineup card management.

She has made a statement every year that I have attended that says that this is not the "official" or "accepted" or "recommended" way of keeping a lineup card, just the method she has put together. Of course, with her reputation and background, everybody immediately accepts her system as the best.

Personally, I do not follow her system to the letter, but use some pieces of it to keep my lineup card. It works for me and could be followed by another umpire if necessary.

I also use a red ink pen for my markings on the card. Very few coaches fill out their lineups with red ink, so my markings stand out.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Andy

Being fortunate enough to live in the same city as Emily, and sitting under her mentoring and teaching for my entire softball umpiring career, I have attended her lineup management class a few times.

She schedules one evening in late February every year to strictly discuss lineups and lineup card management.

She has made a statement every year that I have attended that says that this is not the "official" or "accepted" or "recommended" way of keeping a lineup card, just the method she has put together. Of course, with her reputation and background, everybody immediately accepts her system as the best.

Personally, I do not follow her system to the letter, but use some pieces of it to keep my lineup card. It works for me and could be followed by another umpire if necessary.

I also use a red ink pen for my markings on the card. Very few coaches fill out their lineups with red ink, so my markings stand out.

......................

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

...Must be an east coast thing.

Just like a cali-nian. Everything east of San Bernardino County is "back east."

It is the first time I've heard of Pheonix being referred to as "east coast" though. That's pretty extreme even for a left coaster.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

"blue 12 for 25"..
Me "ok" then to Score keeper "12 for 25"
In 95% of the cases, thats how long it takes.. not sure how you can save a minute off of that.

Even the whole partner thing, if my partner asked me too read him the names off the line up card, that would be irritating.

i'm not ribbing you guys, i do think its a little extra effort you guys are willing to do.. FOR ME, I dont see the point, but it still has a slice of "attaboy" on it. I dont think there is anything wrong with it.

You don't usually have two line-up sheets folded in your wallet that you have to unfold, verify is the correct one...etc? This card has both line-ups on one card.

Also, do you not notify coaches of line-up changes? (The card doesn't save time with that, I just noticed you omitted it.)

The card is a time saver, but if you wish to keep doing things your way, I totally understand. It was just a tool that WMB sent a few years ago, and I gave it a try. First couple of times out, I wasn't a fan either. But as I perfected my way of using it, I really like it. I am not trying to sell anyone on it though. Umpires have been doing it your way for years.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just like a cali-nian. Everything east of San Bernardino County is "back east."

It is the first time I've heard of Pheonix being referred to as "east coast" though. That's pretty extreme even for a left coaster.

ha!

oops...

OK, must be desert thang.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

You don't usually have two line-up sheets folded in your wallet that you have to unfold, verify is the correct one...etc? This card has both line-ups on one card.

"unwad" is a closer term

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

The card is a time saver, but if you wish to keep doing things your way, I totally understand. It was just a tool that WMB sent a few years ago, and I gave it a try. First couple of times out, I wasn't a fan either. But as I perfected my way of using it, I really like it. I am not trying to sell anyone on it though. Umpires have been doing it your way for years.

The issue is not the card; it is using the EA system. The positive of that system is to be able to look at your lineup card and instantly "see" the entire lineup status - who is in the game, who is not, who can enter or reenter, who cannot, whether DP/FLEX is in game or out, who has run for the catcher, and who is eligible to run.

Emily uses a series of symbols to provide this information; to make it work effectly requires a lineup card in a specified format. It will not work on the multiplicity of forms you receive from coaches, from postage stamps to 8 1/2 x 11 computer printouts to toilet paper!

IF - you want to use her system you must use a preformatted card, and you must copy from the coach's handouts to your card. That is the question each umpire must answer: if the system has value to you, it has to be worth the extra effort of printing and cutting out cards and transferring the info at game time.

My only role has been to design a card to meet the system, lay out six cards per 8.5 x 11 sheet, and work out front/back layouts that actually match up when you run the paper through your printer the second time. Then I created a 4" x 11" tri-fold WORD doc that contains the basic instructions and a copy of a marked up card. Easy document to carry for quick reference to the "system."

IF you want to use the EA system, I will give you my spread sheet and Word document for you to print your own cards.

Otherwise, stay with your own system and leave behind the scarcasm for those that are open to new ways. Remember, once upon a time umpires wore ballon protectors.

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

....r those that are open to new ways. Remember, once upon a time umpires wore ballon protectors.

WMB

And, once upon a time umpires used a mask and hat instead of a hockey-style helmet.

Oh, wait.... some of us afraid of change types still do...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

...Emily uses a series of symbols to provide this information; to make it work effectively requires a lineup card in a specified format. It will not work on the multiplicity of forms you receive from coaches, from postage stamps to 8 1/2 x 11 computer printouts to toilet paper!...

I've learned the system and the symbology and use much of it with any coach's favorite lineup sheet. I agree it works best (or most effectively, as you say) with the card designed for it, but key parts of it can be used with just about any card.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

You don't usually have two line-up sheets folded in your wallet that you have to unfold, verify is the correct one...etc? This card has both line-ups on one card.

Also, do you not notify coaches of line-up changes? (The card doesn't save time with that, I just noticed you omitted it.)

The card is a time saver, but if you wish to keep doing things your way, I totally understand. It was just a tool that WMB sent a few years ago, and I gave it a try. First couple of times out, I wasn't a fan either. But as I perfected my way of using it, I really like it. I am not trying to sell anyone on it though. Umpires have been doing it your way for years.

I can understand it as a time saver, but I will never rewrite a coach's line up. We are all human and make mistakes. I'll deal with two pieces of paper, neatly folded and placed in a line-up card holder. If the teams have to wait and extra 15-20 seconds for me to make a change, so be it.

I have my only little way of maintaining the line-up, but I do not teach them and refer anyone who asks to cactusumpires.com.