Softball Baseball
 

Well, that would depend on what level and the mentality of the participants. I quit baseball after 22 years because of the condition of the game.

Sandlot baseball is probably the purest form of the game and I would take working that over anything else. Why? Because the "prima donnas" are basically dressed down by their fellow players. There are no adult coaches/daddies living vicariously through their team/children. There are no parents from River City who honestly believe the "Think System" works and their child is the star. There are no whining wannabes thinking every at bat is their chance to win the World Series. There are no valid stars who believe they deserve millions for playing a child's game, every pitch at which they do not swing MUST be a ball, and it is always interference or obstruction on the other guy.

Of course, you have the equivilant whiners and criers in softball, but the same applies. The more childish adults you remove from the game, the better it is. That is not to be confused with good coaches who know how to coach and control their players, and in turn, the manner in which the game is played.

Me, too, until it became a business for the players and not a game.

Last time I heard that phrase (money talks, bull**** walks) was when they caught Joey Coyle, the South Philly putz who found some money that fell out of an armored car on Swanson Street in South Philly.

Personally, I don't buy into the animosity that does exist in many markets. In this area and others I have visited, it has ALWAYS been the baseball-only umpires looking down their noses at the softball umpires. AFAIC, if you are a sports official, you are a sports official. The game you do is irrelevant. Obviously, there is much more respect to those who strive to do it better than others, but money isn't always a motivator or sign of a better official. Will I give a baseball umpires and other sports officials some ribbing over the length of their games and sometimes the mechanics? Sure, but that is because I'm recruiting them to work softball :D

As I thought about that post at todays clinic, I'll also add there is a lot more opportunity in softball for the "hobbyist" umpire than baseball.

Virtually, the highest pinnacle of hobby/part time umpiring in baseball is NFHS. I consider NFHS to be mid level at best, and easy to do.. pay your dues, attend a couple of meetings, and go do it. No big deal. But if you talk to some (especially on this BB forum), you'd think NFHS was the Mount Sinai of umpiring.

In softball, the opportunities are much better for higher level of ball than NFHS.

Length of games?

I dont see how you can rib them about that, considering I will be working 12-14 games on a weekend consisting of 10+ hour days.

Boredom between pitches though... yep softball has baseball beat by a mile.

Attitude.. excluding mens games, softball is also the big winner there.

Baseball IS the sport though. That is just fact. The beginning and the end. Its where we probably all started and it the 2nd greatest sport there is (2nd only to football).

There is some animosity, and I would agree, typically it is baseball types looking down on softball... which is just plain ignorance of the sport of Fast Pitch Softball... personified by many of our brethren a few links up.

I probably work a higher levels of baseball than most of them, and I dont even try. I get found on the softball field and recruited by their peeps.

lol

Uh-oh! Do we need to start a thread about the origins of baseball and how it resembles softball much more than baseball?:rolleyes:

Not unless you started umpiring 100 years ago.... other than that, you likely learned the love of the game in baseball..

and that is exactly the type of stuff I was talking about in my post, btw.

Admit baseball is what got you started. Not rounders.. not some lame history lesson.

Virtually the only exception, IMO, would be a female who started with softball and never payed attention to baseball.. or a strange exception for an individual.. for most, we played baseball.. and now umpire.

Just admit it.

The highest level of umpire you can be is a MLB umpire.. plain and simple.

I'm no MLB umpire groupie who knows all the umpires names, numbers and underwear sizes like some of our bros up top there, but its fair to admit simple truth.

AMEN!!!!

Pretty freakin accurate.....regardless of what many of us want to admit!!!

That depends on the way you look at it. Many of the umpires on this board know their respective rules and mechanics better than some of the MLB umpires.

I have not been overly impressed in the manner some of these "professionals" act the last couple of decades. I've never really understood why an umpire would argue with a coach or player or make a production out of an ejection. Other than succeeding in looking childish on TV, what does it accomplish?

And for a position which is supposed to be the authority officiating the game instead of a participant, why are there so many different uniforms? Why the need for a fashion statement?

And numbers? Why are numbers even used for any sports official? The players and coaches know who the umpires are? The spectators certainly have no need to know who the official is. If they do, why not just put their name on the back of their shirt/jacket?

Okay, now that I have that out of my system, I agree that it is prestigious to be an umpire in the major leagues. Are they the best? Let's say they are the best that survived. It takes a lot of perseverance to get the opportunity to work at that level. There are many other umpires who just cannot make the commitment of the long hours, lots of travel and less than prestigious money. It doesn't mean they are not better umpires, just that their priorities are not the same.

To be honest, I'm not sure many know the rules that well. Then again, I'm always thought the MLB rules are presented in a pretty convoluted manner.

Uh, in my hometown we only had softbal (FP) for girls, women and man. No baseball at all. In seventeen years of playing, I've only played one season in baseball. And no I didn't enjoy it! I love FP softball. Baseball is just an other game, just as SP softball must be... (never played that game, so I'm not sure)
I've tried one game in cricket, also a member in the great base- and softball-family. That's a game I did like, but I couldn't combine it with my softball umpire- and family-life.


I know that someone must be different from all the others; let that be the dutch-guy...

Next week I wll start a whole new experience in officiating: Rugby. Last September my 5 year old son started to play rugby, now I'm asked to learn how to be their referee. Wish me luck!

I was talking about Americans... I have no clue what you dutch are up to. :D

On Rob Drakes site is the video of Bill Haler v. Earl Weaver.. it is a hallmark of unprofessionalism in an umpire IMO, so your point is well taken and very true. I think on some level, MLB umpires must be able to stand their ground in a world of egos that big.. but I agree with you.

And I also agree, some of the "mechanics".. well, they are not mechanics at all.. just goofy flop arounds and dances designed for the show..

Why do they need an official? There aren't any rules in rugby, is there? ;)

if rugby dont work out for em, I'm sure soccer is quite popular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjynbUNlvWU

Soccer is so popular, that most parents along the lines think and act like their son is the next star. Just as in baseball in your USA...;)
In Holland the most kids playing rugby have British parents (who aready were playing rugby). The dutch kids playing rugby mostly don't like that (nasty)atmosphere on and besides the fields...

I started out as a FP umpire. Then picked up SP and some small ball for a while, but never enjoyed either as much as I did the FP game.

You must have very clean fingernails. :D

Wade,
They play some pretty good ball over there. I saw a number of players over there that could play just about anywhere.

Anyone can play anywhere..

The real test is... could they hang in CA? (land of the best players, best softball, and best umpires)

;)

Now, that's funny!

Wow. Is that really the way they do things in your area? It's quite the opposite here.

(And, no, this isn't a "baseball vs. softball" rant, or an argument why one is better than the other. I do both, enjoy both and try to do each with the proper mechanics and guidelines provided for either.)

Around these parts, the FED baseball and softball groups are two separate entities. If you're doing baseball, attendance is mandatory for at least eight two-hour meetings and a field clinic. Your first year, you must pass the FED test with a minimum of 80% or you'll never step foot on the field.

Your first year will be sub-varsity games only. Your second year requires more mandatory classroom time, another test (this one closed-book), another passing score and another field clinic to advance. Before getting your first varsity games you must schedule and pass a "live" game evaluation performed by two senior members of the local association.

In short, it takes a lot more than "paying your dues and going to a couple meetings" to get assigned to FED baseball in this area. And there's no getting certified for both FED baseball and softball in one association. If you want to do softball, too, then you have to go through a similar process with a different group.

I wish that our local ASA group had half as much training. They truly are closer to "pay and show up". You need only attend two meetings and pay your dues to get put on the field. The ASA test is not required and neither are any local clinics or evaluations. (We do happen to have the National Umpire School coming to our state this year and I hope to avail myself of that opportunity.)

Then there are the other "alphabet soups" playing one form of ball or the other- NSA, USSA, PONY, LL, etc.- which truly are "pay and you're in", with no training or testing required at all.

Baseball or softball- for me, neither is better than the other. But the training and certification for baseball in this area far exceeds anything that is offered for softball. Only FED softball comes close, and ASA is a very distant third.

Similar in requirement if you want regionals.. not so much just to work. In fact, I am known, and have been asked to cover NFHS BB and NEVER attended a NFHS BB meeting ever (same assigning organization for FP and BB)... I declined out of fairness to myself and the players (I dont know NFHS BB rules, only OBR).

Same here, technically, you must do both.

Well, the clinics are always mandatory. Aside from that.. it depends on what you want to do for Travel... Prior to this year, there was an informal process whereby the assignor pretty much knew everyone and where to put them. Now in our area, it is a formal evaluation process with levels. The criteria for each level is fairly strict. I work 18 Golds and Mens FP so have nearly met the highest level for non-elite umpires (but have a few more edges to smooth out) and hopefully can get elite in the next few years.

I also teach my own clinic for my own local, most of whom just work the Rec and Beer league.

There are the umpires who just do that, and I wouldnt think it should be more than "pay your dues and attend a clinic" to get on the field. Beyond that, it is up to the UIC's to provide training OJT.

I'll be in Dublin for the National School this weekend.. should be great fun (will be my 3rd of 4 clinics this year!)

MIKE should come out and be a surprise guest speaker!

LOL! The ASF offered a free shirt and membership.. NO CLINIC.. to work their little mens FP thing.

Lame.

I just have to disagree there in general with that principle for those who want to advance..

I would agree, if you want to toss a cold one back and trot onto the beer league fields with the good ole boys.. you dont have to do much..

If you want high level regionals and nationals and top level tournies.. quite a bit of training, evaluation, and hard work is required... at least in our area.

Me too.

wade check your PM

Awesome! Will be the first umpire I've met off this board. I'll be looking fer ya.

Yep, Wade, I imagine that there are about as many different variations on training, certification, assigning, evaluations, practices, etc. as there are different regions handling umpires.

Heck, you can get variation from one ballpark to the next, let alone from one city, county or association to the next. Multiply that on a national level and it's easy to see things just aren't the same all over!

I guess I am the strange exception then. I never really played any serious baseball growing up..more into basketball. The small town I grew up in had a town men's fastpitch team that played in a statewide league. Almost every Friday and Saturday night was spent at the local field watching the Mens FP games.

I became a HS basketball official after college and did that for about 12 years. When the legs couldn't handle the pounding on the hardwood any more, one of my buddies convinced me to try FP...that was about 10 years ago and I have been hooked ever since.

I have done a few baseball games as a favor to assignors, but found that I just did not like it.

FP softball is where I started umpiring, and it's where I will stay.

To a one. I enjoyed calling softball; anywhere I can wear shorts callin ball in in Georgia, I'm in!:D

You're full of it. A sports official is a sports official until you have to spend a day behind the plate watching 80+ mph baseballs dancing all over the place.

Softball guys need to understand that baseball guys who look down on you are cretins. But don't for a second think the level of profficiency is the same. It ain't. What you do is good enough, I'm a basball guy but I don't spend my time measuring weenie lenghts with Delta Force guys either. ;)

Best ball I ever called.

It's called entertainment. MLB is entertainment first, all things second. ProoF? Steriods, modern ballparks and haf inning times - commercial lenghts.

Why not? teams do, fans do, dogs and cats do. :D

Jeez, you're full of issues, Mr. Issues. Nubers are easily read from distances.

So is all of life

They do, they are, and they have as many issues as you do. Maybe.;)

I started this post many times then went back to remove all the sarcastic comments about this post. After about 20 minutes, this is what I ended up with:







Thanks,

Mike

First my perspective, I only umpire NFHS softball and ASA JO girls FP. I think there are elite umpires in both sports softball and baseball. I also feel like to each their own. BUT I also feel like there softball umpires are looked down upon by baseball umpires. I think it has to do with the male ego thing of a mans sport is more important that a girls sport (remember my softball is only girls FP). I think the guys see themselves living vicarously through their sons so the mans sport is ranked higher. Personally I beleive that is total BS, but there is that sort of feeling in my area.

On the topic of FED vs ASA (all I can speak to) I think they both have the ability to have off the street umpires. In my state all you have to do in FED is take an open book test and you are registered to umpire. For ASA all you have to do is send in money and you are an ASA umpire. So both are easy to get, there are no requirements to do any mentoring any clinics nothing...just get ahold of people who schedule and you are ok to work....

Now if you want to move on, state tournament series in FED, you have to go to a certification clinic (every two years) and take part !! of the NFHS test (every year) and be ranked high enough by ADs (basically coaches) and have a strong enough schedule. All of those go into a formula and you get a rating, the highest 100+ get sectional games, then from those some get regional then a smaller amount get state assignments.

ASA, to do state tourneys (Run by state ASA) you have to attend a clinic every three years, rules meeting every other year, complete the ASA test, and be judged as acceptable by the state UIC staff. To go to Nationals, both regionals and championships you have to have worked several years at the state level and been given high evaluations and reviews by the UIC's at these state tourneys. Then the state UIC and Commisioner have to approve your appointment to a National.

To me the ASA has the best program in our area. It has umpires evaluating umpires. There is a LOT more chance for feedback, ability to get constructive advice. FED is kind of a free for all work with a partner tonight and who knows who will show up tomorrow night.....and there are a lot of people who do it just for the money and care not to improve their skills! Nowhere is there a UIC kind of setup in FED until you get into the Regional or State level.

Just ran across something interesting that kind of fits in with this thread...

My two areas of certification/registration are NFHS baseball and ASA softball. My region is one of those where the NFHS baseball and softball umpires are in totally different groups, with different associations, meetings, assingors, etc.

I thought that I would look into becoming certified for NFHS softball, so I searched for and found the web site run by their local umpire group. On the first page, there was a plea for more umpires! It said that they have a severe shortage and were begging their members to accept more games to their schedules.

Cool. Sounds like a favorable "supply/demand" situation and a good chance to get my foot in the door!

So I contact their association president for more info. Come to find out that their mandatory meetings are held on exactly the same the same nights, at the exact same hour, as the mandatory NFHS baseball meetings are held.

This makes it impossible for an umpire to meet the classroon requirements and get certified for both sports in this area. My only option in doing NFHS softball would be to attend the meetings for a different association- one is about an hour south of me, the other about an hour north- and then I would only be assigned games in those far-off districts.

Guess I won't be doing any high school softball anytime soon...

I come from a much smaller softball community.. I take it you dont know these people?

In my area.. the ASA /NFHS people.. are the same essentially, especially at the top.

My point is.. have you called them and confirmed there is a no way to make the transition, considering your long time ASA back ground etc?

Obviously, regionals are probably out for your first year.. but if they need umpires.. a little smarts wouldnt be bad.

In our area, ASA clinics count towards your NFHS (assoc?) mandatory 16 hours of training.. so 16 hours is nothing really to me.. I did go to two of the NFHS clinics/meeting though.

maybe if you attended one NFHS SB meeting.

Wade,

I'm trying to see if they will let me take the NFHS exam without taking the classes, or something like that. No final word yet.

You must have NFHS certification to do high school ball in Ohio. While I'm finding out that some of the guys running this association are also ASA umpires, and both groups seem to have the same guy working as their assignor, ASA and NFHS are totally separate groups with, again, separate associations and meetings.

At least the ASA meetings do not conflict with NFHS baseball. But there's still some conflict. We have an ASA National Umpire School coming up March 1st- the same day as my associations baseball field and mechanics clinic.

Blowing off the baseball clinic might dock me some points with the local powers-that-be, but they have that darn thing every year and the ASA NUS only rolls through here every five years or so.

Go over to the Baseball forum, the testosterone of the Old Gurd who professes complete disdain for softball umps is ever present. You're right on all counts, btw, it's a Boy's Club thing and it is total BS.

Common BS tactic of baseball umps, then, of course, they can proclaim how softball guys never Xover because they are weenies. Back in GA, we made it a rule that yiou had to be eilgible for either and assigned to either. Pay rates were the same.

I have a better solution! Just become a full time softball umpire. No muss, no fuss. :D