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-   -   When must an offensive sub be named (ASA)? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/41512-when-must-offensive-sub-named-asa.html)

Infield Fly Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:51pm

When must an offensive sub be named (ASA)?
 
Question came up at our ASA class last night. Opinions were split.

A runner is ejected for flagrantly running over third baseman. The offensive team started the game with nine players and has no subs available.

When do they have to name the (non-existent) replacement for the ejected player?

It's the bottom of the 7th, tie score.

If before the next pitch, by Rule 4 D 2 a they are not allowed to drop down to continue to play with 8 because of the ejection. So they would forfeit the game.

If not until that spot comes up again in the batting order or until they were to take the field for the next inning, then they could potentially score a run before having to name a replacement due to either needing a batter for that spot in the order or a 9th fielder.

greymule Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:31am

In ASA, the moment the team drops below the limit, the game is forfeited. I've seen it happen many times from ejections in SP.

Other codes are different. In Babe Ruth softball, for example, the forfeit doesn't materialize until a shorthanded team cannot field a full team or produce the proper batter. It's a strange rule. For example, with the 4 spot due to bat but empty because of a missing player, the number 5 batter comes up and singles. The defense appeals BOO. Ruling: The nonexistent number 4 is out, and number 5 bats again. However, if before number 5 completed her at bat, the defense called attention to the BOO, then the batting team forfeits because they can't produce the proper batter.

Another strange difference in Babe Ruth is that although you can't play 1 down as in ASA, you can (to prevent going 1 down as a result of injury or ejection) re-enter "used" substitutes who would normally not be eligible to play. The opposing coach picks the kid to be entered into the lineup.

I don't know how Fed handles shorthanded situations.

WestMichBlue Thu Jan 31, 2008 04:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule
In ASA, the moment the team drops below the limit, the game is forfeited.

I don't know how Fed handles shorthanded situations.

NFHS: 4.3 A game is forfeited when (1.g) a team cannot provide eight players in the batting order to finish a game, or (3.8.c) when a half inning ends and the team assumes a defensive position.

My interpretation is that the game ends when the empty spot comes to bat, or when the team cannot field eight on defense. Note that we do not know the team cannot field eight until the player actually is missing at bat or in the field. A late arrival, while not on the official line, is allowed to play, thus the team can legitimately state they are waiting for another player.

Note also that a player that is on base and cannot continue can be replaced by the most recent batter not on base (4.3.1.g); that certainly indicates the NFHS's intent to allow the game to continue until the "drop-dead" point.

WMB

greymule Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:40am

WestMichBlue, the way the Fed rule is worded, I would say your interpretation is correct.

Note also that in ASA, you can start the game 1 down, taking an out for the empty spot. But an injury, ejection, or disqualification results in an immediate forfeit. If you start with a full lineup, you can go down 1 for injury or disqualification, but an ejection results in a forfeit.

umpharp Fri Feb 01, 2008 09:19am

Since the question was asked about ASA ball, the answer is that the game is forfeited right away.


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