Need some help on some questions that have come to mind while trying to get prepared to come into the fast-pitch world.

Have heard many of you suggest the wide stance for the PU and I have a few questions

When trying the wide stance at home I get sort a stuck in the mud feeling and worry about getting moved in time when a foul is hit behind. Just wondering if you think the wider stance is something you should work into or be better off starting right away with. Also concerns on the wide stance putting to much stress around the knees or do you believe this is better than the continuance of bending at the knees. I believe I probably will start out with a lot of younger age group games so trying to get a feel for the best way to get down low enough and still be able to walk the next day

Question #2 when ordering a shirt to do plate how much bigger should I order 1 or 2 sizes up. Without any help I fill out my XL shirt pretty well now so just wondering how much allowance should make for the chest protector

Question #3 I've heard when ordering a plate cap that I should order a size smaller than what I wear on the field so it wont keep coming off when I pull the mask off. Is this true??

I guess that is about it for now. Got my ASA test on Tues night looks like pretty much the same ole stuff amazing how much easier it gets every year


Thanks

Don

I went to the wide stance "cold turkey" and I liked it right away. I don't have any trouble moving quickly out of the stance. Maybe you are setting up too wide?

The wide stance is much better on the knees, even more so with the younger ages, 'cause you don't bend as much at the knee for a given drop.

Remember this, however... unlike in slow pitch, in a single game you will be doing ~100+ of these deep knee bends (even with the wide stance) ~200+ for a double header. Start exercising NOW or you will go wobbly before the end of the 3rd.

Quote:

Question #2 when ordering a shirt to do plate how much bigger should I order 1 or 2 sizes up. Without any help I fill out my XL shirt pretty well now so just wondering how much allowance should make for the chest protector

It depends a bit on how bulky your protector is, but I only go up one size. (L to XL) And, I fill the L quite nicely ;)

Quote:

Question #3 I've heard when ordering a plate cap that I should order a size smaller than what I wear on the field so it wont keep coming off when I pull the mask off. Is this true??

True - for me, at least. My plate caps are one size smaller than my bases caps. I'd just use the size smaller all the time, but the larger cap is a bit more comfortable. Make sure it is not too small, though. I prefer to buy my caps in person rather than mail order to make sure the fit is right.

All right Don, here's my two cents:

The stance I use when I am behind the plate is a fairly normal stance. Heel to toe, feet about shoulder with apart. From this point it is easy to glide down into the strike zone with little aggravation to the knees. Remember to tuck those elbows in and keep your hands relaxed though. This allows me to get into the strike zone of even the smallest player. (I am 6'2", so that is saying a great deal.) :rolleyes:

Most chest protectors are relatively thin. Normally, I wear a large, but get by with an XL for plate duties without looking crammed into the shirt. If your XL fits with some room, you should be able to get by with an XXL. However, id by saying you fill out that XL pretty well you mean there is no room for....uh....growth, ;) then you might consider going for the 3X. The rule of thumb is normally a size larger though, so I really think that you ought to get by with an XXL.

On the plate cap issue, I am one of those relics that prefer to use a two stitch beanie style to the four stitch ballcap style. Also...as it is adjustable, I can't really say whether or not it is the same size as my fitted field hats, but I can tell you this, it does fit me a little tighter than the field hats. To be on the safe side, why not go with the adjustable style? To me, the bill of the hat is more of an issue in getting my mask off that the fit of the hat anyway, which is why I use the 2 stitch.

As for tests...I still go through test anxiety. :p

Hope this helps.

Scott



[Edited by Skahtboi on Feb 14th, 2002 at 04:46 PM]

Please Scott......NOT a beanie.......
 

The extra wide stance is just something you have to play with........

If Wally was at your National School (I expect he was).....I am sure that he was selling the aspects of it....

It was after the National ASA School last year that I gave it a try.......and LOVED it........the only thing I had was a little soreness in my Quads.....

Steve had mentioned it before and I now know why he likes it so much.....

My plate cap (a 4 stitch) is 1/8 smaller than my field cap....

I also tend to not cinch my mask real tight so removing it is not a problem.......I seem to recall us having some discussion some time back on the prefferences on the tightness of the mask.......I have always worn mine a bit loose......and will tuck the elastic in the back a half-turn to make sure it stays in place.....(I do this every time I put the mask on).....

You will go through some adjustments in your plate game........get an experienced FP ump to watch you work and maybe he can give you some pointers........

As far as shirts.....I wear a 1X field and 2X for the plate....

Joel

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dakota

Quote:

The wide stance is much better on the knees, even more so with the younger ages, 'cause you don't bend as much at the knee for a given drop. Remember this, however... unlike in slow pitch, in a single game you will be doing ~100+ of these deep knee bends (even with the wide stance) ~200+ for a double header. Start exercising NOW or you will go wobbly before the end of the 3rd.

As a primarily SP umpire who does both games, I must take exception to the SP/FP comparison here.

The proper mechanic is virutally identical for both games. Though many FP umpires think the SP guys just stand there, looking at the ground (okay, so some do, but not the good ones), in some cases, a SP umpire actually has to get lower to watch the ball pass through a SP strike zone than some do in FP. And, as Don will attest, the boys playing SP take quite a few pitches. If you are working the plate properly, you are going to be up and down almost, if not more than some umpires working a FP game. Of course, if you are working Men's A or above, you may have to abandon the mechanic as it is important to see the strike zone, but just as important is staying out of the catcher's way since the runners may steal at that level.

When this mechanic first hit ASA, I saw it at the Central Atlantic Regional Clinic (or the remnants thereof) and then again the follwoing February, when the National Staff went to and demonstrated the stance (Tony Walsh, I believe) at the National UIC Clinic in OKC.

You only get caught on a passed ball or foul pop-up if you lean back on your heels. You need to stay on the balls of your feet. What the wider stance does for FP umpires is make the drop a shorter distance because you are already starting lower by setting up with your feet further apart. Not to mention that with the real young players, it can be a long way to the top of the strike zone. The key is to sit down in the stance, not bend over or crouch.

JMHO

Don, on the plate cap, I agree with Scott. I use a 2 stich plate cap exclusively. I never have a problem with it coming off with my mask. 1 downfall though, it kinda looks dorky. Remember though, whatever plate cap you go with, always pull the bottom of the mask out and THEN up. This keeps you from catching the brim of the cap with your mask.

1 size bigger on the shirt should be fine for you. If you wear Elbeco shirts, that don't stretch, you may want to go up 2 sizes. Here we wear pullover knit shirts that really stretch. They also stay tucked into your shirt much better.
Dave

<b><i>Please Scott......NOT a beanie.......

</b></i>Yes Joel...the dreaded beanie. Been using them for so long I don't think that I could call a game without one. Say...maybe you should give it a try. Don't know what you are missing.

<b><i>The proper mechanic is virutally identical for both games.

</b></i>Mike..not an opinion, its a fact. I call both as well, and use a very similar mechanic, though I seem to be a real oddity in my association on this point where SP is concerned.

<b><i>I use a 2 stich plate cap exclusively.

</b></i>Dave...I knew you were an all right guy! Now if we can just get these other umps to see the light and become one of the growing fraternity! ;)

Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skahtboi


<b><i>The proper mechanic is virutally identical for both games.

Mike..not an opinion, its a fact. I call both as well, and use a very similar mechanic, though I seem to be a real oddity in my association on this point where SP is concerned.</b></i>

I, too, am often seen as the "weird" one who actually calls the SP strike zone. But then again, I also have my three Nat while being from a state that use to average one National every third year. When I teach the new umpires on the mechanics, I tell them strait out that if they are going to umpire, regardless of the reason, there is no harm in doing it the right way. And if you expect to get Regional and National assignments, you better know how to make the calls by the book. Just the way it is around these parts. The fact that I feel it necessary to make that comment sort of reflects on the future of umpiring and that is a shame.

I <u>only</u> do FP, but all the Adult SP umpires around here stand fully upright off to the side. I know the ASA Umpire Manual shows a different mechanic, but I've never seen it actually used in games. I was basing my comment on what the guys here actually do.

Generally, I only do fastpitch, but I will do slowpitch now & then - somebody is shorthanded for a tournament at least once or twice a year. I get some strange reactions from some of the players as I use a "modified" plate stance - I do not get down as low in slowpitch. I do not know whether that's "proper" or not, but I think it's close to what I've seen taught and read for slowpitch. Unfortunately - at least around here - the slowpitch folks are not good umps and really don't seem to care about improving.

Now, about those beanies - do y'all have propellors on top to keep the air moving? I got rid of the last of mine 5 years ago.

Are Elbecco's still legal to wear? I've got several hangig in the closet that I can't give away - even the LL folks don't want them. I sure don't intend to ever wear one again.

<b><i> "Beanies", I thought that was those little babies that were so popular.... They don't want us wearing them in
this part of the woods, the beanie hats that is.

glen

As even Merle Butler will tell you, a local association can adopt whatever uniform they wish. That being said, I intend on giving mine to the new umpires coming into the organization to help cut their start-up expenses.

My 2¢ on the ELBECO
 

When properly laundered and pressed, they looked much sharper than the mesh pullovers. JMO, of course. Starched with a "military" press, they looked very sharp.

Problem was, too many umpires seemed to just pull it from their bag, where it had been wadded up since the last game, even when occasionally washed, it had never seen starch or felt an iron since it left the factory. Those guys looked 1000x worse than the same guys using the same kind of garment care with the pullovers.

I do like the way I can get away with more casual garment care, even though I do lightly press even the pullovers. (No starch, tho).

BTW, since the ASA Officialgear.com still sells them as official ASA, I guess they are still allowed, subject to local rules.

Guys with the 2 stitch---
These hats in ASA have not been legal for years!! Our UIC would string us up if he caught us wearing one. Besides, they looked retarded!!! Give them up, wear a combo.

I wear only combo hats and I only do Fastpitch. I buy all my hats in person as they vary. I call my plate hats-the headache hats, as I wear 1/8 to 1/4 smaller on the plate. You should have no trouble keeping on your hat if you have one of the experienced fastpitch fellows adjust your straps on your mask for you the first time. (I did, tremendous help) Then, you need to practice pulling the mask out and up in 1 continous motion with your LEFT hand.
Use only the wide heel to toe stance, it's easier on your back!! Start walking now and do other low impact exercises for your knees, or after your first game on the plate, you
could be a little wobbly.

Soon, the old Elbecos will no longer be available as new, so
get use to the knit (and oh my god they're hotter) shirts. I personally don't like the new shirts as I enjoyed the starched and military pressed look for tournaments.

Yes, old Lady Blue is a little large. I wear an Xl on the
bases and an XXL for the plate.

Good luck and welcome to the Fastpitch world. Slowpitch will bore you to death once you've become aclimated to the
Fast!

Elaine, now I suppose someone will tell me what type of leg guards I am allowed to wear, or exact measurements for my ball bag. I have seen, even though very rarely, someone wearing an outside chest protector.(not me) I guess I am from the old school but is it ALLOWED to wear a detachable throat protector? I wear one on my mask. Dave

Elaine,

Are you sure the plate cap is not legal in ASA? I can't find anywhere where ASA specifies the size of the bill on the cap. (I don't wear them, but I <u>think</u> they are legal.) Maybe it is just your local rule?



Dave,

The ASA, and any local association, etc., has a right to specify our uniforms so that we look, well, uniform!

:cool:
<font color=white><big><b>|</b></big></font>

Looking good and professional are a good thing but sometimes I think some of the regs are way too picky. Most everytime I work with someone or watch a different game, their pants are not the EXACT shade of gray. It doesn't distract or take away from the game at all. People are there to watch the game not us blues. We are all built different and have different looks. Some large, some small, some tall, some short. As long as they are dressed to match closely and the correct colors that should be fine. Dave

Elaine:

Gee...no chance that anyone would ever call you opinionated or biased, is there?! ;)

The 2 stitch plate cap is still quite legal in ASA, NFHS, USSSA and DSI. I don't know where you get your information from, but as was mentioned by another poster, while this may be a local rule it certainly doesn't hold true on the national level. It is hard to believe that one who is held to so much scrutiny as a fellow umpire, would hold those within their ranks to such harsh scrutiny by calling them "retarded" looking for simply wearing a part of the uniform that they are comfortable with and that is just as professional as "the combo."

I personally don't like the combo. I am not comfortable with it. Therefore, when I am behind the plate, I will wear the 2 stitch. I have called in several state tourneys and one national, and have never had this aspect of my uniform brought into question.

Join me now, all of you brother and sisters who are wearing the 2 stitch plate hat when you work a game: "We shall overcome, we shall overcome, we shall overcome sommmmmeeeee daaaaaaa aaaaaaayyyyy."

Scott (who is fighting injustice and plate hat snobbery wherever he encounters it) has spoken.

[Edited by Skahtboi on Feb 15th, 2002 at 08:58 PM]

Dave,
Yes, it is allowed and even advised that the plate ump have a throat protector.

I hate the combo.........

I wear a 4 stitch for the plate.........

And a 8 stitch in the field.........

<b>My Preference</b>......

The prejudice for the 4 stitch over the 2 stitch came from my early days as a baseball umpire...(1979 to 1983).......in the local association that I called with (Junior Teenage and American Legion), the 2 stitch was frowned upon........I guess I have carried that prejudice into my softball umpiring.....

I have a couple of micro-mesh 8 stitch.......

I hope they will have them in 4 stitch this year.....

They are wonderful.......

I will still wear the wool in cool weather though....

Joel

http://www.eteamz.com/sites/gcbumpire



[Edited by Gulf Coast Blue on Feb 19th, 2002 at 04:02 PM]

I think the bill on the 8 stitch is waaaay to long -- the back of my lawn chair lounger keeps knocking my hat off :cool:

I also perfer the adjustable to the fitted because the fitted part just looks goofy across my forehead. :cool:

[Edited by Dakota on Feb 16th, 2002 at 12:35 PM]

Re: My 2¢ on the ELBECO
 

I agree about the Elbeco. I always had mine pressed and ready to go. And it is possible to pull them out of your bag without looking too terrible if folded and stowed properly.

However, I can tell you the Elbeco is NOT official ASA gear for championship play. Your local association can do whatever it pleases without ASA's approval. However, once you get to a Regional level, leave them at home.

Many members of the National Staff made a statement last season. Many mailed their umpire crews for the Nationals to which they were assigned and told NOT to bring the Elbeco, that they would not be part of the uniform. Please note that last year, the Elbeco was still the "official" ASA uniform.

Locally, what I do not give to new umpires, I will probably continue to use when working alone or with a partner who will also wear one. I will never have a uniform which is not identical to my partner's no matter what level or where a game is played.

BTW, ASA sells many different things, but that does not make them part of the "official" uniform.

Dave,

A throat protector is legal and advised. A chest protector on the outside of your shirt is an umpire faux paux. Don't
do it!

I have not seen a 2 stitch anywhere in Region 4 since the mid 1980s and the Atlanta Metro UIC as well as the Commissioner said not to wear them. They were not allowed in any of the 5 Nationals I called. They are not for sale from the ASA National Office with the white letters outlined in light blue, so how are they legal? Are you :confused:??? Or
am I? :D I don't know who your UIC was at Nationals, but 2 guys tried to wear one (2 stitch) and were told to put them in their bag. Most of us around here wear combos for everything as some think the 8 stitch look like duck bills.

I still think the 2 stitch look stupid, JMO, you can wear it if you want to, personally I think you stick with them because it's easier to remove your mask--also, we're not allowed to wear the mesh adjustable hats, either. Metro Atlanta Umpires as a whole always look professional, and call professionally due to our extensive training programs. Our former UIC Dick Gaylor, is now the Region 4 UIC. Georgia gets a hellva lot of tournament bids, and a lot of us call a lot of games. :cool:

If you are allowed to wear 2 stitch and mesh hats, ok. But,
if you are ever selected to call in the Metro Atlanta area,
leave them at home. :) I know for a fact that Norm from New England nor Bob Savoie will not let you wear a 2 stitch.

I'm not biased or opinionated except when I feel I'm right.
:p :p :p
Nanny-nanny-boo-boo :eek:

[Edited by Elaine "Lady Blue" on Feb 19th, 2002 at 05:04 PM]

Hmm!!! let me get this straight. You say the 2 stitch looks stupid and shouldn't be worn. Also the 8 stitch looks stupid yet it CAN be worn. I think we are dealing with a double standard here. I can see the UIC not wanting an umpire to look sloppy (wrinkled shirt, unshined shoes, salt stains on their cap, etc...) but just because they don't like the looks of something... come on give me a break. Why don't they spend more time worrying about getting competent blues instead of nit picking the small stuff. JMO Dave

And on top of all of this, we are completely ignoring the 6 stitch!

:D

I do agree the combo hat looks so much more professional than the short billed caps.In fact I have even worn my field cap while working the plate.With good technique,the mask can be easily taken off while leaving the cap in place.Think of the top of the mask as a hinge,pull out and then up with your left hand and mask clears even a field stitch brim.I practiced in front of a mirror to perfect the technique until it became second nature. Jeff

Thank you, Mo99!
And no one ever answered me where they can purchase a 2 stitch cap with the ASA letters outlined in light blue. Can't do it, can 'ya? I love it when I'm right!! :rolleyes:

Didn't know we were talking about ASA exclusively. Dave

Guys...

The topic of <u>legality</u> of the 2 stitch plate hat <u>was</u> an ASA topic. Elaine brought it up - she stated that the 2 stich has not been legal in ASA for years. This was disputed. Apparently, Elaine was right wrt ASA.

Of course, the stylishness :cool: :rolleyes: of the 2 stitch was much broader that just ASA.

Find where ASA says that they are not legal. There is no where in the code that I can find where it says they are illegal. (As was mentioned previously by Dave.) Just because they do not market it does not mean that it is not legal. The two stitch is not marketed by TASO either, but it is allowed there as well. Same goes for Dixie and USSSA. None of them market it, more than likely based on the fact that their official suppliers don't manufacture it. This is more an issue of economics versus legality.

JMHO

Scott

I think maybe we have a situation where they are de facto illegal, rather than de jure illegal.

Since any hat without the 2 color ASA official logo on it is illegal, and since you can't buy a 2 stitch hat with the official ASA logo on it, you therefore can't legally use a 2 stitch hat -- unless, of course, you already have a 2 stitch with the ASA logo.

Hey, this ain't a big deal for me. I think that earlier in the thread I pointed out what you just said - nowhere in the rules describing the official ASA umpire uniform does it even mention the number of stitches in the hat.

Well, we have officially driven this subject not just into the ground, but almost through the center of the Earth to China. :rolleyes:

Hmmm!!! China, can you get THAT with a ASA logo? Dave