Double Switch??

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Steve, you're right about umpiring needing to be informed prior to the substitution. However, the only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not the line actually comes into play. I remember once watching Phil Garner, about to do a double switch, take just a few steps out of the Astros dugout, motioning to the bullpen, and I could just sense Cecil Cooper yelling at him to report it to the PU first. It was too late however, and the pitcher had to lead off the next inning. I would agree that this is more of a strategy question than a rules question, though obviously there is some procedure that needs to be followed.

Personally, I see not reason for such a ridiculous "rule". A substitution is a substitution and as long as it is reported to the umpire, what difference does it make who goes in for whom. It's not like a reentry where a player is restricted to a certain spot in the line-up.

Sounds to me like something that became a rule because a certain manager didn't agree with it when being outcoached by another team and had enough pull to get sour grapes rule installed.

[3afan]

isn't the "double switch" just a sub??? its not a "rule" ...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by 3afan

isn't the "double switch" just a sub??? its not a "rule" ...

Not just a sub, two subs.

One with onions, one w/o.

But yes, why the fuss, sub A for player 1, sub B for player 2? Batting order is all that matters. not field positions (apparently except MLB).

[3afan]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Not just a sub, two subs.

One with onions, one w/o.

But yes, why the fuss, sub A for player 1, sub B for player 2? Batting order is all that matters. not field positions (apparently except MLB).

yes 2 subs was implied ...

[Blu_IN]

They are used in the majors because of specialization. Relief pitchers specialize and thus put their full efforts into pitching. Bench players, commonly used in pinch hitting situations, full their full efforts into hitting and fielding.

So in the seventh inning, you want to replace your pitcher. However, the batting spot the pitcher occupies is due up in the bottom of that inning. Well, you can use him for one inning of relief and pinch hit for him. Or, you can execute two substitutions. You put in your bench player for the batting spot the pitcher occupied. You then put in your pitcher for a batting spot occupied by another position player. Send your pitcher to the mound, and the bench player to his new position.

In softball, specialization doesn't come into play as much. Sure, many coaches will DH/DP for their pitchers, however most of the times that pitcher is one of the more athletic girls on the team and can hit equally as well.

In fact, I think you will find that in high school baseball, the pitchers hit well because a quality pitcher in high school is typically athletic and a well rounded ball player.

Its when they get into the minors and majors, that specialization becomes more important and thus as their pitching skills are increased, their hitting skills stay stagnant. Sure they can still hit off a high school pitcher, but they can't compete nearly as well against their counterparts in the minors and majors.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by 3afan

yes 2 subs was implied ...

It was , not a real comment.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Personally, I see not reason for such a ridiculous "rule". A substitution is a substitution and as long as it is reported to the umpire, what difference does it make who goes in for whom. It's not like a reentry where a player is restricted to a certain spot in the line-up.

Sounds to me like something that became a rule because a certain manager didn't agree with it when being outcoached by another team and had enough pull to get sour grapes rule installed.

This is not some unique baseball thing. The same problem can easily arise in a softball game. If a team is on defense and a coach calls time and puts in two new players in the field, he can have them bat in the spot for the player they are replacing on defense (which is the default way of handling it) -or- the coach can inform the plate umpire that the substitutes are actually going to occupy different spots in the batting order. For instance, the new F4 is going to occupy F1's spot in the batting order and the new F1 is going to occupy F4's spot in the order.

If the coach doesn't specify this, the umpire can assume that the new F1 is taking the old F1's spot in the order and the new F4 is going to take the old F4's spot.

No new or special rule is required. After all, an umpire doesn't really care where the players play defensively, he only cares where they are going to bat in the order.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

After all, an umpire doesn't really care where the players play defensively, he only cares where they are going to bat in the order.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Which is why the batting order determines the substitutions, not the defense positions. Umpires only need to know defense positions for CR eligibility.

IOW, when SubA for Player2 and SubB for Player5 are reported, they are recorded by the BO, not by defense positions. SubA would then bat in the #2spot and SubB would bat in the #5 spot regardless of where they are on defense.

Of course, sometimes we have to ask "which for which?" when told "Jess and Katy for Melissa and Heather".