Dropped Third

[Bandit]

Ok I believe I called the rule correctly but can't find it in the ASA book to back me up. Help Please. Nobody on base, no outs, drop third strike comes into effect, the catcher has the ball rool up her catching arm and go inside of her chest protector. Batter-runner goes to first. My partner calls her safe which I agree. Defensive coach says ball never touched ground (good point, on his part) discussion between partner & I comes to the conclusion that catcher never controlled pitch. Did we blow it ?

[SamNVa]

For ASA, I would appeal to rule 8.6.M - Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out when a ball gets lodged in an umpire's or player's clothing or equipment. In FED, it's rule 8-3-3(d1).

I believe that if the ball becomes lodged before it is ruled a catch, then it becomes an uncaught 3rd strike and the awards apply.

[Dakota]

... the catcher does not have to drop the ball; she just has to not catch it. This leads us to the definition of a catch...

ASA Rule 1-CATCH-B
If the ball is merely held in the fielder's arm(s) or prevented from dropping to the ground by some part of the fielder's body, equipment or clothing, the catch is not completed until the ball is in the grasp of the fielder's hand(s) or glove.

If the catcher pulled the ball out from behind her protector, grasping it with her hand, then STRIKE 3 - OUT.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by SamNVa
For ASA, I would appeal to rule 8.6.M - Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out when a ball gets lodged in an umpire's or player's clothing or equipment. In FED, it's rule 8-3-3(d1).

I believe that if the ball becomes lodged before it is ruled a catch, then it becomes an uncaught 3rd strike and the awards apply.

Sam,

For 8-6-M you left out a key word.... "offensive player's clothing" ...

[Roger Greene]

Sam,
You got the rule correct for Fed, but the cites in the 2002 book are 5-1-1g (pitch lodges in umpire's or catcher's equipment is dead) and the base award is 8-4-3c PENALTY (This part isn't as clear as it speaks of the pitch lodging in the backstop, but that is also part of 5-1-1g, and is the penalty cited in the dead ball table in rule 5 for a lodged pitch, one base from TOP for runners, 1st for batter if 3rd strike or 4th ball)

Fed also has the entry of a ball becoming lodged in the umpire's or offensive player's clothing and has a different penalty (8-4-3m). Look in ASA's definition of dead balls or blocked balls and see if there isn't something about a pitch lodging with F2.

Roger Greene

[oppool]

Looking in the rule-book the closest thing I could find is 8-4-I and Play 8.4-9 in the case book which states a ball remains alive while entangled in a defensive player's uniform or equipment. Assuming this and that the ball didnt hit the ground my guess would be Batter out

Added that F2 at some point pulled the ball out holding it in her hand to complete a catch

Just my guess

Don

[Edited by oppool on Jan 24th, 2002 at 04:23 PM]

[Steve M]

Don,
Good "catch". The ball lodged in a defensive player's equipment or uniform is a live ball for ASA. Now, if tis was a foul that went to the catcher's hands and then into the chest protector - that's just a foul ball. And this is one of the differences between Fed & ASA.

[Dakota]

In ASA, the ball becomes dead when lodged in an offensive player's clothing or equipment, but remains live when lodged in a defensive player's clothing or equipment.

See ASA Rule 1-DEAD BALL-2 as well as the rules already cited.

[SamNVa]

Well, I knew somebody awarded the batter 1st in that case. Maybe it would be best if I just followed Roger's example and stuck to answering FED questions. d8-)
SamC

[Roger Greene]

Well, Sam, at least you didn't enforce a Pony penalty in a USSSA tournament like I did last summer! A non-participating coach pointed out the error to me after the game. How embarassing.

Roger Greene