Question of liability.

[Skahtboi]

I work a local HS league that uses ASA rules/umpires. The league reps, knowing that NFHS has already approved metal cleats to be used in the 2008 season, have decided to allow metal cleats in this league. Now, as we all know, ASA does not allow metal cleats in any level of JO ball. Does this open up the umpires to any liability? If there is an accident, will the Bolinger insurance still cover us? I am totally worried about nothing?

[TXFPBlue]

On the subject of liability, what about the coaches that are allowed outside the bench area, sitting on the bucket giving signals. If they are injured by a foul ball is there a possibility of liability?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by TXFPBlue

On the subject of liability, what about the coaches that are allowed outside the bench area, sitting on the bucket giving signals. If they are injured by a foul ball is there a possibility of liability?

Wow Dave(NCASAUmp), my thread got off track in one post!!!! That beats your 24 hours!!!!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Wow Dave(NCASAUmp), my thread got off track in one post!!!! That beats your 24 hours!!!!

What does everyone think of lemurs?

[CecilOne]

I hope Mike answers soon.

In the meantime, what about insuring my shoes from the catcher's spikes?

[Dakota]

As to the liability issue, they will be covered by whatever they were covered with before so long as the rule allowing metal cleats is in writing by the league.

The reason I phrased it that way, if this is a HS league and the umpires are registered only with ASA, and the teams are not registered ASA, I'm not sure they were ever covered. Merely using ASA rules doesn't do anything wrt insurance AFAIK.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Exactly correct, Tom. If both teams and all umpires are registered ASA, then this is an insured ASA game. They may adopt whatever rules they wish; the umpires only assume liability for negligence in performing their duties, and their duties are to enforce the rules the league specifies. Remember, the ASA rulebook is clear that the rules are for Championship Play Only, and that local leagues may adopt all, any portion, or whatever changes they wish.

I believe John Spiotta, representing Bollinger, once said that they could pitch grenades and swing spears, as long as it was an adopted rule, and the insurance would cover. But, the premiums would be adjusted based on the underwriting risk presented by the games being played that way.

WRT the coaches, unless the league has a rule allowing them outside the dugout, the umpire allowing them out would like be considered negligence by a jury, and the umpire would likely be judged (at least) partially liable. That would be lessened by the coach's own culpability in using poor judgment, but that argument doesn't help much. Our courts have often held that stupidity of a plaintiff isn't a viable defense by a defendant.

[3afan]

our local HS fall league (North TX) - also using ASA - is not allowing metal cleats ... thats an '08 change, why on earth would they allow it now?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by 3afan

our local HS fall league (North TX) - also using ASA - is not allowing metal cleats ... thats an '08 change, why on earth would they allow it now?

I have asked this of many "knowledgeable" folks, and yes, no one seems to know.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

What does everyone think of lemurs?

HA!

[FullCount]

The so-called HS leagues in the north Texas area are not really HS nor are they associated with Texas' UIL or Fed Rules. These are parent-coached teams typically made up of all, or nearly all, players from a HS team and the leagues are a mechanism for the players to play as a team in the Fall. They are frequently used by the HS coaches as a way to evaluate Freshmen and new players and a way to evaluate players that may move up to varsity the next Spring. But the HS coaches don't coach, they sit in the stands and watch. All of the HS Fall Leagues with which I am familiar are formed just like any other Fall league and many allow any area team to play. All of the ones I know about are sanctioned ASA leagues requiring the players and coaches to be ASA registered, with ASA cards, and have requisite team insurance.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I work a local HS league that uses ASA rules/umpires. The league reps, knowing that NFHS has already approved metal cleats to be used in the 2008 season, have decided to allow metal cleats in this league. Now, as we all know, ASA does not allow metal cleats in any level of JO ball. Does this open up the umpires to any liability? If there is an accident, will the Bolinger insurance still cover us? I am totally worried about nothing?

Steve is correct. We go through insurance seminars at least every other year about these types of issues. As long as all participants are registered ASA, the event is sanctioned ASA and the umpire has been legitimately assigned.

Before everyone jumps on this last comment, I only included it because there are some state/metros which require umpires to be assigned by the UIC or his/her designee. I know this doesn't happen everywhere, so there is no need to point that out.